Safe Speed Forums

BELOW is a part of an e-mail I recieved wrt drink driving , very sad

I went to a party,

And remembered what you said.
You told me not to drink, Mum
So I had a sprite instead.
I felt proud of myself,

The way you said I would,
That I didn't drink and drive,
Though some friends said I should.
I made a healthy choice,

And your advice to me was right,
The party finally ended,
And the kids drove out of sight.
I got into my car,

Sure to get home in one piece,
I never knew what was coming, Mum
Something I expected least.
Now I'm lying on the pavement,

And I hear the policeman say,
The kid that caused this wreck was drunk,
Mum, his voice seems far away.
My own blood's all around me,

As I try hard not to cry.
I can hear the paramedic say,
This girl is going to die.
I'm sure the guy had no idea,

While he was flying high,
Because he chose to drink and drive,
Now I would have to die.

So why do people do it, Mum

Knowing that it ruins lives?
And now the pain is cutting me,
Like a hundred stabbing knives.

Someone should have taught him,
That it's wrong to drink and drive.
Maybe if his parents had,
I'd still be alive.

My breath is getting shorter, Mum

I'm getting really scared.
These are my final moments,
And I'm so unprepared.
I wish that you could hold me Mum,

As I lie here and die.
I wish that I could say, "I love you, Mum!"
So I love you and good-bye.

that's very moving

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Welcome to the UK, the Land of "Selective Freedoms"

"Pass the sick bag, Alice!" is the most appropriate response to that.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I posted that poem about two years ago on another web site, I think it gets the message across if you actually think about the words.

But I suppose if you have never held someone in your arms dieing asking you not to let them die or having to wake someone out of bed to tell them that there loved one has just been killed.

Then I suppose you might be tempted to reach for the sick bag, after all that's the same reaction that you get from someone who has just been given a death message.

But I suppose I am just a big softie at heart as I sometimes shed a tear along with them. So, the next time you drive past the scene of a road collision, think on as it could easily end up being any one of us.

Well thats enough of being morbid and I hope everyone has a happy and safe christmas and new year.
Stephen

I think that at the lower end of the scale the dangers of drink driving are over stated and that the punishment is way over the top.

Example, you drive at 31mph in a 30mph zone, you would be bloody unlucky to get any fine or points.

Now, have a drink to put you 1mg over the limit. That'll be a year ban and you will be a "Drink Driver" for the next 11 years. This has happened to a friend of mine.

Are you really that dangerous at the lower end of the scale? I'll doubt it. Oh but you should not drive under the influence, you should give your driving your full attention.

Well, that's true, but who doesn't drive under the influence of something?

Many, many things cloud our judgement and our ability to drive, but drink driving is the one you'll really rot in hell for even, and I stress, at the lower end of the scale.

Is your judgement and abilty to drive any worse than..

Driving under the influence of being late?
Driving under the influence of having hay fever?
Driving under the influence of having screaming kids in the car?
Driving under the influence of starting a new relationship?
Driving under the influence of going through a divorce?
Driving under the influence of moving house?
"" starting a new job?
"" being too cold on a motorbike?
"" working bloody hard on harvest all summer and not sleeping enough.

I have had labrynthist (sp) and was very dizzy and I still get vertigo now and then, but I'm not drunk.

2 years ago I broke my neck, I was sent home with a neck brace, there was no mention that I shouldn't drive, even though I couldn't move my head properly, but I wasn't drunk.

When I drove trucks in the USA I had to have random drug and alcohol tests, if the found alcohol in my system, I would be banned from driving for.......24 hrs, taken off duty.

I am not, repeat not, saying that we should be allowed to drink and drive, what I am saying is that there is a big difference between having had a drink and not being able to walk. But in the eyes of the law, if you so much as sniff the bar maids apron, you are a drink driver.

I need more information please.

Why did the friend get pulled over for test in the first place?

The police don't need an excuse to pull you over for DD.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Strictly speaking, they do. They can only legally test you if either

(a) you have committed a moving traffic offence,
(b) you have been involved in an accident, or
(c) they have reasonable grounds for suspicion that you have been drinking

In practice of course they can interpret these powers very liberally, but they do not have "unfettered discretion" - although occasionally you hear calls that they should have.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Especially when you look at (c) and lets be honest, if they want to pull anyone over they will do, they will use (c) as an excuse, well from my experience anyway .

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Whilst walking the small mongrel this evening, I popped into the local and met up with an old mate who has recently returned from abroad. We got chatting, catching up on each others lives, and I reckon I have had about 12 units of alcohol - three pints of Kronie and a large Bushmills 'for the road'. At a process rate of two units per hour, I should be, theoretically, safe to drive at about 7 am. But I know how I feel - I will not drive before at least 10 am after I have had a good breakfast and at least three cups of fresh double-roast Italian coffee. Whiskey does that to me. In theory, I have had less alcohol units than if I had had another pint of strong lager, but if I had stuck to the beer, I would have felt able to drive far earlier.
The 'unit' system is an absolute joke because it does not take into account mixture of alcohols; it is simply based on the amount of ethanol ingested. Alcohols are very complex compounds and have a wide range of stochastic effects on the body and mind. Beers have the simplest alcohol groups, followed by wines, fortified wines, distilled alcohols and then ciders/perries. This last group contain amyl alcohols, particularly amyl ethanoate (the base of 'pear drops sweets') and amyl heptanoate (the 'apple smell') that, in sufficient dosage, can cause hallucination and fitting, blocking the same group of synapses as chloroform attacks.

Suffice to say, drink-driving is unacceptable but, as in all things to do with road law, there are no 'grey areas', just black and white and thus I would suggest that, during this time of celebration and good cheer, if your car-keys are in your pocket, you should not be standing at a bar.

Merry Christmas all! (Are we still allowed to wish that, or have I offended anyone?)

Relaxed as a newt!

Josh

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Aquila



Licat volare si super tergum aquila volat...

And if you've got a 12 month ban, expensive insurance for the next 5 years and no job, instead of blaming the law you look in a mirror and say: "that's the idiot who got me banned"

Then, at least, you won't be standing inside the cells saying things like: "the stupid bitch ran out in front of me" as you start your 36 months for manslaughter.

But then, drinkers are never to blame.

nor, it would seem, are pedestrians.

Isn't that like the arguement the anti speeding lobby use, you are going "to fast" therefore it's your fault?

The anti speeding lobby will quote figures about x number of people dieing becuase they were speeding. The anti drink drive lobby say that after y amount of alcohol you have lost x amount of concerntration. But how does that compare to other situtaions that would loose you concertration, such as screaming kids in the car.

I want to reiterate that I'm not condoning drinking and driving, I would like to see a more graduated approach to any punishment that is handed out, to make it relative to how drunk people really are. They could lower the drink drive limit but at the lower end of the scale just fine people £60 and they get three point and it doesn't sit on their record for 11 years. Then at the higher end the punishment could be tougher.

Imagine being caught on camera going 35mph and getting the same treatment as someone doing 150 mph, not really the same level is it? But that is how the drink drive system works.

I agree with MGBGT. I know from personal experience how quickly drink affects me.

Last year I'd settled down for a quiet night in with a bottle of cheep crap from the local offie. It was about 12% if memory serves. Just after I'd sat down I realised that I needed to go out for something. It was urgent, I can't remember what it was, but I didn't have a choice. At this point I'd had litterally 1 sip of drink, nowhere near one unit. HOWEVER, immediately I noticed the effect on my driving - my judgement was off and I didn't feel happy at all. This is why I never drink ANYTHING if I have to drive.

I realise that different drinks affect people in different ways and there are people who feel completely fine after one drink, but then again there are poeple who aren't fit to drive and are way below the limit. This is why I'm for zero tolerance. Its not hard. You're driving therefore you don't drink. Simple. There really is no excuse ever for DD.

(The poem is pretty sickly though )

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I wonder how long it'll be before we have SafeDrink, campaigning against the black and white laws of drink driving. One of the forum regulars was quoted as saying "I had an appropriate level of alcohol inside me at the time, and I wasn't dangerous, despite the recently lowered limit."

I'd run it... if we needed a certain quantity of drink in order to drive.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Given that the ability of drivers varies so wildly, both with alcohol levels and with different alcoholic drinks, I doubt that any variation in the law/s is possible.
A person can be below the level with a few pints of beer, but over it with a few spirits. Similarly, the same persons blood alcohol level can vary depending on the time of day, state of health and even if they are tired.
How are you going to factor all that into any law ?
If anyone feels it necessary to drive after drinking, I suggest they are in need of some other sort of help than alcohol.

You can't factor it into any law, which is why the law takes a whole population approach and doesn't come down like a ton of bricks on people who have had a trivial amount to drink.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

They do in the USA, with field sobriety tests. I must say I quite like the approach.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

PeterE wrote (c) they have reasonable grounds for suspicion that you have been drinking.

In my son's case the reasonable grounds were he was young, drives a late plate car, and in order to run that car has a job which requires an early start. And the best reason, I caught someone last week around this time driving one of these.

Duly tested, negative, he is allowed on his way.

Friend of the wife's drives to pub, turns into car park, stops, picks up husband and friend, drives off. Reason for stop. "I have just seen you drive out of a pub car park".

Now are these reasonable grounds? I hold no brief for drunk drivers but would it not be better to set up check points and stop everyone over a 20 to 30 minute period. Stop those who are observed driving at a standard below that of a careful competent driver rather than the lets stop this one and hope I am lucky.

Discuss