Safe Speed Forums

But your trend continues downwards and hits zero somewhere around 2030, which is completely unrealistic, by any standards. There _must_ be a levelling off somewhere in a system where zero risk is an impossibility.

The 'big' changes have already been made. Until we get to the "next big thing", whatever that may be - motorcycle airbags, rubber bumpers, etc the changes are always going to be marginal, and offset by traffic volume increases, "bad" years, etc.

Until that technology is available and available cheaply, relative micromanagement is the only way forward, as we have experienced over the last 10 years. It's almost an experimentation phase!

Yeah. The experiment has failed. 10,000 have paid with their lives. That's why I'm here.

It ist called manners und courtesy.

I was asked if photos of my injuries could be used once. My family refused und we refused on Ferdl's behalf as well. They wanted to use them as a "speed issue".

So .. there are other considerations... as to how such release of data affect all parties involved.

As it ist .. the image of his death has not helped anyone .. und worsened an already weak relationship between Brunstrom's policing style und his weary subjects in Brunstromia. und also caused a good working relationship between hard working cops und the public to deteriorate all the more

Only, mein Lieber ... we do not know how this incident occurred..

At an inquest into the death of Mr Gibney, it was stated that he had cut the corner on a right-hand bend on a road near Ruthin, North Wales.

He was travelling with five motorcycle companions at the time. One described how he heard the sound of an explosion and saw his friend flying into the air.

John Hughes, the North Wales Central Coroner, described Mr Gibney’s riding as “reprehensible”.

He heard that the motorcyclist had no licence, no insurance and no specialist training for the powerful machine capable of speeds of up to 190 mph.

Mr Gibney was riding a 1,300cc Suzuki Hayabusa when he failed to spot an oncoming Vauxhall Astra in a dip. He collided head-on in a 60 mph zone on the B5105 near Lanfihangel, North Wales, in September 2003.

Mr Gibney, of West Derby, wore a black T-shirt that read: “Hello officer, Yes my car is emarked, Yes my number plate is legal, Yes my tyres have tread, Now p*** off And catch some REAL criminals.”

What you failed to notice was the the graph was plotted with a logarithmic vertical axis, following an exponential decrease, so your argument about reaching zero is a falacy. This also takes account of the decreasing rate of decrease with the decreasing level of fatalities.

May I suggest you have a look at some maths books about such trends.

The latest figures from the Department of Transport show that despite an increase in the number of speed cameras, the number of people killed on the roads is going up. According to statistics, a total of 3,210 people died in crashes in the 12 months to September last year, compared with 3,177 a year earlier.

Und in any case .. a speed cam did not stop him nor did the fear of getting pinged stop him.

Had there been the constant threat of some lurking cop somewhere .. then maybe this would have deterred the ride or at least made the riding a bit more "compliant und less red misted" - after all he was a 40 year old Papa.

But it could have been that crisis some have over reaching 40 years . (though this ist now apparently the new "30" with "30" being the new "20" und not being classed as old farty until aged 90 years. )

IG did say once that his worst offenders on his patch are the born again wannabe hell's angel types

Paul, I'm not aware of the work that has gone into the production of the graph you have shown, but are you saying that it is the use of speed cameras of that period that has caused the rise in deaths?

Could the rise be attributed to, or compounded by, other factors? Perhaps the increased use of mobile phones in cars over the same period or the rise in the adoption of ABS?

I've been there in as much detail as possible. The most telling finding is that the trend hasn't been lost in many other countries where those factors (and most others) are also present.

That makes sense.

Are there other countries where speed cameras are being used in a similar way to the way they are here and can be seen to have caused similar problems?

Biker photo 'unacceptable' - Hain
Mark Gibney (family photo)
Mark Gibney died in a motorbike crash in 2003
Peter Hain has said a decision by North Wales Police to show photographs of a decapitated motorcyclist without family consent was "completely unacceptable".

The Welsh Secretary told the Commons chief constable Richard Brunstrom's decision caused "enormous distress".

Mr Brunstrom used the photos of Mark Gibney, 40 at a private media briefing to show the consequences of speeding

The force did not comment as the matter has been referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).

'Not consulted'

Mr Gibney was killed when his bike crashed on a bend on the B5105 between Cerrigydrudion and Ruthin in Denbighshire in 2003.

A graphic image of Mr Gibney's severed head, lying on a grass verge, was shown to journalists and council officials during a presentation by Mr Brunstrom last week.

Mr Gibney's headless torso was also shown, as well as the bodies of two young men who died in a different crash.

Peter Hain
Peter Hain was answering questions in the Commons

Mr Brunstrom said he was showing the images to "give the context" of his anti-speeding campaign, but confirmed that permission had not been sought from Mr Gibney's family, who come from Merseyside.

At Commons question time, Labour MP for Clwyd South West, Martyn Jones, asked Mr Hain to join him in calling for Mr Brunstrom's resignation.

Mr Hain told MPs: "I agree this very much with Mr Jones that this episode has caused enormous distress for the relatives of this victim, who were not even consulted in advance about this behaviour by the North Wales Police chief constable.

"I think it's completely unacceptable and I know the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) are looking into it very seriously indeed."

North Wales Police Authority voluntarily referred the matter to the IPCC on Tuesday. The force has twice apologised to Mr Gibney's family.

Responding to the Commons exchange, a spokewoman for North Wales Police said it would be inappropriate for the force to make any comment as the matter had been referred to the IPCC.

Ministers are now calling for his resignation.

You know that old saying about giving someone enough rope....


.......Do you think that will be part of the next CC of North Wales's induction?

Game over I feel.

If I was the government and ACPO looking for a face saving way to exit the 'speed kills' game what better way than to throw the mad mullah to the wolves as a way to signal a change of emphasis.

Brunstrom is the personification of speed camera enforcement. He's no longer responsible but he is still seen as the main champion.

The guys a complete ass, i suggest they put him back in the gorilla outfit he's so fond of wearing, and drop him at the local zoo for the randy males to play with, see how he likes being f***** for once.