Safe Speed Forums

Hello everyone

New to the forum, and a little naive about what it might really be about. I am really hoping it is about genuine safe speed and not people trying to find out if they can get away with their 37 in a 30.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone could tell me about how Gatsos work on a number of lanes. I was happily driving past a Gatso today at around 65 in a 70 on a dual carriageway. But as I did this a motorcycle sped past me at least 80 (idiot!). Is there a small chance that innocent motorists could be wrongly accused because a camera got it wrong?

I'm not here to relieve a personal concern about this, it was an issue that sprung to mind when it happened.

Thanks

a Hi Davicon.

It is about that and safe driving, and the understanding of issues surrounding road safety policy and camera effectiveness. To give you a flavour, you could read this (RTTM).


All cameras always have a second 'opinion' to corroborate the measured speed of a vehicle.
In the case of fixed Gatsos: when triggered by the radar reading, the camera will take two photos, half a second apart. It will do so when the targeted vehicle is on the graduated markings. These markings are a known distance apart, therefore the speed of the vehicle can be manually confirmed by an operator (there are problems with this but let's not go there).
If there is only one vehicle in the photos then there's no problem.
If there are two and the offending car is obscured by a closer (legal) one, then that offender got lucky.

Also, to quote Greenshed:


In short, you needn't worry - unless someone doesn't check the photos properly!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

And that's the biggest problem - SCP sending out NOIP without checking the photos .Although Grenshed ( our suspected SCP employee -suspected ,as unlike them ,we consider them innocent till proved guilty)will deny it happens .(hope that's not going to get us into hot water again Steve)

Also
One thing I've found out from this site is that by gaining knowledge of the Speed Camera operations ( which is basicly to consider that driving at anything UNDER the limit -"You're a safe driver" ) ,and applying some of the knowledge on here will make you start to look out for hazards ( to both vehicle and pocket) ,and think about possible scenarios ahead .As Steve said - read the information -RTTM is a good one -you might then ask if a garden gnome at the side of the road, would be a better safety product than a gatso

Make your own mind up -and now you've started questioning the current "road safety policy " - look deeper and ask -the info is on here -or available .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Hi chaps

Ah well thanks for the info. I'm a new driver really so i don't really know too much about all this speed camera stuff. Only been driving a year and i am very concious of driving safely on the road. I will look closely at the RTTM you linked. I will admit at this point though that speed trap hotspots are a prime example where i find it difficult to balance saftey and concentration. Is it my speedo i should be watching or the road eh? but thats another thread.

cheers

I think as you gain experience, and as you notice limits are being ratcheted further down for no good reason, you will realise the significance of your question.

This document about side effects might interest you too.
(I don't want to overload you, so I'll stop ... for now )

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

As a new driver ,you mighr well find that there's a speed at which you can cope with information input .Above that -you might be that concerned with other things that you miss out checking the rear mirror/speedo etc .This is one area of concern - in speed mad UK -they want both , but we argue that the road is more important than a blip above the limit - and trafpol would do so ( as evidenced by those who used to post on here) .
As you gain experience -you'l find that you do things without noticing you're doing them ( a concept on this site called the "lizard brain") -whereby the brain becomes programmed into reacting to information before you realise that you've noticed it .Example - for me - I hit brakes (now this is MY first car with ABS) -and I feel wheels locking (actually it's ABS cutting in )-before I know it ,I've lifted off and braked again -auto cadence braking .Try driving about 5 MPH slower and see how much more you see .And then if you get tailgate Trev ,slow down ,increase the distance to the car in front ,to give yourself space to allow for his errors .If he tries to pass -help him - let him get on his way to his accident- chances are that hes driving above his input threshold .( And you will find advice on here about how to deal with tailgaitors)

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Both. You had to do it on your test, so why can't you do it now?

No, my instructor allowed me to do whatever speed I felt like. Wow I can be funny just like you. Think you missed the point.

Ignore him - he'll cycle of into the distance -on this site you've got two groups of anti car - the SCP nuts ,and the reformed cyclists( like reformed smokers )

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Exactly, very sensible advice i would say thank you. I think subconsciously I do something like this. My confidence does come down when I have someone sitting on my boot though.




LoL, i see.

You might want to take weepej with a pinch of salt Davicon. He is the master of repeating failed arguments: link 1,link 2 (in both cases he didn't respond).

He also has a nasty habit of making up claims to suit his argument. ('clearly accelerating' "flooring it", "most pedestrians who get whacked have been drinking", "reports were suggesting he'd been charged", "a lot of it simply evaporated").
[yes weepej, I do keep a list]

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I love him already

I knew i should of started a thread with a broader title like 'Hi' rather than a simple question.

Think there's a topic on the main site about how to deal with them - must admit I don't like it even after 40+ years on the road ,but that's after a couple of rear end nasties .Whether or not it's good advice -I don't know ,but it makes me feel better -I start to leave a longer gap in front , then at first sign of traffic slowing brake progressively harder ( keeping an eye on car behind) .That way ,I know it's got lenty of space to stop if I jam brakes on in hurry .Usualy the progressive brake wakes them up and they back off .Don't panic -that's the tailgators main weapon .And don't be afraid to help them overtake - let them carry on to their next accident ( or the lessor spotted traffic cop ,or speed trap).

Though - how to deal with the cycle nut ( other than slacken off the front wheel nuts ) has me beaten .I do find that once past them , at lights get as close as possible to the pavement gives you the moral high ground - they either move outside you -risking their safety , or go on the pavement , risking peds taking them to task .

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Frankly, probably due to your ridiculous assertion that you don't get failed if you speed whilst on your test.



He was.



He was.



I think we were talking about night time, and yes "most" was maybe an over exaggeration (IIRC I'd read it somewhere), but still this TRL report asserts that 30% of pedestrians killed had been drinking.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/ ... review.pdf



They did.



It did (people leaving their cars at home)

Another way to look at it is that your stress level increases, you are recognising a potentially dangerous situation over which you feel you have little control. There are several bad things about this, it becomes a distraction so you may miss something else happening around you, your heart rate will rise and you may start to become irritated. This can make your driving less controlled and possibly more aggressive even after the tailgater has gone. The idea of leaving more space, possibly slowing and assisting the tailgater to pass do more than the obvious recovery of safety space, they put you back into control and reduce your stress level.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

Sometimes you can make the tailgater's arrogance work to your advantage -he /she wants to go faster - you don't ,but it passing you will solve the problem .I've slowed right down on the approach to lights( red -don't see need to rush up to reds and slam on brakes) on our ring road ,gater has seen gap in front and thinking it's being clever has shot past into gap in front .I've been waiting for this and ( usually to it's surprise ) don't have to slam on the brakes .

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Apologies to all for the thread derailment. I might yet split this off.


Yet people did just that, as indicated by their speedo - proof in pudding!
Do you get it now weepej? Speedos have allowance for a wide tolerance, any tolerances always result with an overread.
Failure for exceeding the speed limit: ok (especially if true speed is above the nominal prosecution threshold), but failure for exceeding the speed limit as indicated by the dial doesn't follow, simply because the offence may not have occurred. Do you really think folks will automatically fail for doing a true 22-23mph in a 30?


I asked you to substantiate these claims, thus far absolutely nothing has been forthcoming.
If you want, you can redeem yourself by revisiting that thread and justifying your claims.


So, you were actually cherry picking a certain moment in the day to suit your original argument while happily dismissing the rest of the day - how selective!
[in case you try to wiggle out of it, your preceding point was "Because parked cars very often go hand in hand with pedestrian activity (streets, shops etc...). ", which does imply daytime, not happy hour (which BTW isn't the same as night time)]


A rare concession!
Well yes, you obviously were over exaggerating - thank you! The problem is that you presented it as fact, as opposed to your own opinion!
30% isn't most, there's no "maybe" about it.
Isn't it funny how you didn't give that link when originally requested huh? (even though it still doesn't substantiate your original claim as requested.)


I tried to find said reports (then and now), no success. I asked you to show them, all you did was obfuscate. By all means go back to that thread and show these "earlier reports" (but even if you now manage it I would have to question why you didn't just give them back then instead of trying to misdirect in the way you did).


So when I asked you Do you have a reference for the significance of your claim, specifically: what portion of those displaced took up homeworking, and is that portion really "a lot"?, why didn't you give any such reference? Why do you continue to evade?
Again, you can go a long way to redeeming yourself by answering that request within the original thread.

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Yes but travelling at an indicated 32 whilst actually moving at 30 is not speeding is it.

However, travelling along at 35 to 40 in a 30 zone whilst on your test, 45 in a 40 or 55 in a 50 = instant fail if the examiner sees it happening.

That would be one point against for each case of overspeed, with two points being a fail. More than just a few mph would be a fail anyway.
I received one point for an overspeed of a few mph in a 30 limit.
You would also get the same speeding penalty for going slowly, on a dual carriageway (and a single) you are required to accelerate UP TO OR NEAR the maximum signed speed (if conditions allow).
Failing to notice an obstruction (cyclist/pedestrian, even if behind you) is also a one pointer...of course, failing to notice a cyclist coming up your inside and then colliding with him/her (or having them cycle into your car) when you turn right would be a fail also....
Speeding because you didn't notice the signs would also be poor observation.
Seriously being over the speed limit during the test would mean the car being stopped and the long walk back starting.
And in case you think that being cautious is a positive thing: It isn't. It is called "undue hesitation", and it is a fail....no other chances.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Yes, but travelling at 32 whilst actually moving at 32 is speeding!
<hopes the penny will now eventually drop>


Even when the true speed is legal? Are you presenting this as another fact you cannot substantiate?
Even if true, and all is considered, it poops on your original notion that everyone must have managed to abide by the speedo when they passed their test.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign