Safe Speed Forums

From a partnership survey:



This raises some questions about the safety benefits of speed limits. Clearly if someone doesn't know what the speed limit sign means, then they are unlikely to obey the limit. But it goes further. Layered on top of this are the folk who understand the signs but haven't seen them. One might even go so far as to guess that 50% or more of drievers are unaware of the speed limit in force with full confidence at any random sample site.

But when you put this in the real world you realise that there aren't anywhere near enough excessive speed crashes to spread around. For the last year on record we had 214,000 injury crashes, and latest DfT figures suggest that 12% of those probably had excessive speed as a contributory factor. That would be a bit under 26,000 crashes.

We could then compare that with the number of drivers - we have 32 million licenced drivers and we should guess that at least 2/3rds of that number are active. (i.e. they actually drive). So that would be a bit over 21 million active drivers. If half of them don't know the speed limit that would be 10.5 million.

If we subtract the 26,000 crashes from the 10.5 million who haven't got a clue what the speed limit is we still have 10.474 million who had no idea what the speed limit was yet, by some magic still didn't crash.

I say we need a bit more of that magic.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

some times it's hard to know how fast you are suppossed to be driving because the sings are a little thin on the ground.

More repeater signs would not go a miss, especially if they are going to inforce the limits so vigerously, to give us a fighting chance of keeping legal.

The above figures don't surprise me at all. If I ever stop anyone in work, I always ask them the speed limit on the road they are travelling, irrespective of what speed they were travelling at. I do this just to wake them up a bit, and its surprising how often they get it wrong, ESPECIALLY in national speed limit areas.

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

The roads with street lights are often some of the most difficult to assess beacause the law says that any road with street lighting is in a 30 mph limit unless signs show otherwise. If you are unfamiliar with a road you have to assume that the limit in such an area is 30 until you see the NSL black diagonal on a white background or a repeater sign or a speed limit sign. Often these are thin on the ground or even non-existent. I bet even less respondents of the survey would know this law!

Yes, there's a stretch of the A38 near me which is, and always has been, NSL. And no reason it shouldn't be, as it's wide, open and clear through open countryside. However, they put up street lights a few months ago, and I'm a bit worried that they're going to start nailing people for exceeding a nonexistent (and ludicrous) 30mph limit.

Cheers
Peter

Yes, in my experience NSL repeaters on lit roads can be conspicuous by their absence.

One example is turning on to the northbound A34 from the A500 at Talke, north of Stoke-on-Trent. The road is lit, and there's just enough development to make you wonder whether you've missed a 30 sign (or indeed a 40 and missing 40 repeaters). You continue for about a mile without passing any repeaters until you encounter a 30 sign with a Gatso shortly afterwards Only looking back do you confirm it was NSL.

A point worth adding in this thread is that, as the respondents to the survey almost without exception either got the speed limits right, or believed they were lower than they actually are, the ignorance of national speed limits isn't really something to lose much sleep about (unless you do a lot of driving behind people who believe it's 30 on a single-carriageway road )

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

..even worse when they think that the NSL is 50 for single-carriageways.
At least if they're doing 30 you can easily nip past them - and ignore the subsequent indignant flashing of lights and hooting.

Cheers
Peter

I've been up that bit of the A34 a lot. I have a sneaky feeling they might have put a nsl sign just after the little roundabout put in for the shopping thingummy (straight on takes you towards Congleton) but it might be on the approach to the roundabout if you are coming off one of the side roads rather than from the A34/A500 as they're both nsl. Poor show though.

There are cycle lanes on either side of the road now. Oddly it actually makes a more natural 30 mph limit in the built up bit just before the traffic lights before you turn right for Congleton or straight on for Rhode Heath etc. Before, the road was so wide 30 felt silly.

I'm really miffed by the idea the only speed limit without repeaters is the 30 mph one which might be the most dangerous to exceed.

I think that things have got worse because of bad road design. We get roads that are "partial" dual carriageways, Lanes blanked off with cross-hatching. We now often get trunk roads going down from national limit to 50 or even 40. It has become so daft that its hardly worth have a "nationl" limit at all. Now we even have variable speed limits on motorways you may as well have speed limit signs everywhere.

When I took my bike test the insturctor gave he some great advice. If you our out in the country and ar not sure if you have crossed from a 60 to a 30 (signs are sometimes coverd by overgrown trees) look down a side road. If you see a 30 lmit you are in a 60 zone, if not you should be doing 30.

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Speed camera policy Kills

I am not surprise at all by these findings but one think that bugs me more that the lack of signs is piss pore signs.

Close to me a main road was recently dropped from 30mph to 20mph in all not to bad idea due to the school and nature of the road. But to indicate this rather major change the a few of the lamp posts are now sporting beer mat sizes 20mph signs.

Now I have excellent eye sight but even I would find them hard to read even if I did have a reason to look at them.

What ever happened to the idea of clear noticeable signage?

RTRA 1984 states with utter clarity that if a speed limit is not properly signed you cannot be convicted of exceeding it.

Everyone take note - there are faulty signing schemes out there and it's an excellent defence where such schemes are present.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Years ago, I might have thought that people could have got a clue from those round signs with a large black number inside a red circle. But those days are long gone – hence the need for ‘signs that bite back’, i.e. speed cameras, which are slightly less convenient to ignore!

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I stole this .sig

IF 50% (or any significant percentage) of drivers don't know the speed limit WHILE... a) they don't crash, AND b) we have the safest roads in the world and AND c) we know damn well that you don't need a speedo or a speed limit to drive safely THEN

The speed limit can't be that important to safety can it?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I think the scenario that you are unknowingly propagating, of scrapping or ignoring (by ill-enforcement) of the speed limit system, would be a dreadful nightmare. There is no middle way – we either have limits and we stick to them and be seen to stick with them (and that means you to, SafeSpeed), or we don’t have limits. If we don’t have limits, we have guidance or whatever. If you want the limits to be renamed or rebadged as guidelines, go ahead and try it. To me, they are what they say on the tin – LIMITS.

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I stole this .sig

Clearly this is rubbish. Speed limits served us very well for over 50 years with appropriate enforcement.

I don't want to scrap them or rebrand them (as you very welll know). I just want them enforced with intelligence. As they always were until the silly cameras season.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Are your hormones playing up or something, BW? This is the second example of emotive ranting I have seen from you today and I've only been looking for a few minutes.

Incidentally, since when did a speed camera actually inform anyone what the speed limit was???....

(...nitwit).

I cannot believe that anyone finds the word "limit" ambiguous.



Limits cannot be enforced ambiguously because they are not ambiguous. By behaving this way, you give succour to those whose habits and ignorance cause traffic accidents.

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I stole this .sig

According to www.pepipoo.com, most Constabularies send them out within 14 days of the offence!

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I stole this .sig

In your (flawed) opinion BW. I admire your faith in your beliefs but as I have already pointed out in another thread you are supporting a failing policy. It doesn't work the way you say it does, and we can say categorically that the way things were done before worked better.

You are wrong. Dangerously wrong.

That doesn't answer the question BW. There is obviously something wrong with your comprehension today.