Safe Speed Forums

Hi all,

I came across the following story in my local paper yesterday and thought I'd open it up to you for discussion. - Out of interest, can anyone confirm the legality of the claims made in the last few sentences re: prosecution? Theoretically, if an alleged 'offender' did not admit guilt to the police, then could a prosecution really follow based on this kind of 'evidence' ?

Cheers


From: http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/viewartic ... ?id=526333

SPEED GUN VIGILANTES TO LINK UP?
Published on 30/07/2007
WARNING SIGNS: The Hill, with its 30mph speed restrictionREF: 0395914

RESIDENTS in a Millom community who set up a vigilante force to catch speeding drivers want other villages to follow suit.

The Millom speed campaigners hope to link up with residents living along the main route between west Cumbria and Barrow.

They are inviting villagers to set up speed watch groups to catch more motorists who flout traffic laws.

Organisers of speed watch at The Hill are extending their invitation to residents of villages like Askam, Kirkby, Broughton and Foxfield.

A spokesperson for the group, who did not wish to be named, said: “It’s not beyond us to share information we have collected with other villages.

“Speeding along what are fairly dangerous roads is a county-wide problem, so collaboration with residents in other black spots is the way forward. We are in the process of putting our findings together into a report, but I am sure our vigilance has led to some successful prosecutions.

“Young drivers in particular seem to be a problem.

“They don’t realise the limits are there for a reason and that a serious injury can maim, kill or reduce a person’s quality of life permanently.”

Since 2006 the nine-strong group of villagers have had training in the use of a new £1,800 speed check radar to catch vehicles racing through The Hill.

The villagers have been campaigning for motorists to heed the 30mph speed limit on the A5093 between Thwaites and Millom for years.

They set up a Community Speedwatch Group and raised £11,000 to install two flashing signs, buy jackets and the radar.

PC Bill Barker, of Western Mobile Support Group, said: “They don’t have the authority to stop anybody, so they check the speed of the vehicles.

“If they exceed the limit they will note the date, time and registration number, and take that to Millom police station who will then send a letter of warning.”

Using a DVLA database, the villagers can identify the registered keeper of a vehicle travelling too fast.

Police can then issue a written warning to the motorist.

A second letter is sent out to repeat offenders and prosecution may follow if a motorist is found speeding a third time.

The speed campaigners say their vigilance has led to a number of successful prosecutions.

Utter rubbish These villiage idiot types cannot provide legally valid evidence in an alleged speeding case.

What usually happens in practice if the "locals" identify a problem person the Constabulary will then make their own speed checks, which may then result in action being taken.

Welcome along BTW - I take it you're not a fan of CSCP like the reat of us Cumbrians

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That's how Nazi Germany started. They'll be burning books next. (Brian Noble, Wigan coach - updated 20/4/06!!).

Thanks for the welcome.

In response to your question, I'm most definitely not a fan of CSCP!

I'm not perfect (though who is?) but I do consider myself an advocate of good driving, and in addition to picking up an IAM certificate some years back I have maintained a clean licence in the lottery that is our points system today. Nonetheless I find it very strange that CSCP - who purport to promote road safety - now carry the following statement on their website:

"Please note that as from June 1 Cumbria Safety Cameras will not be publishing schedules for safety camera operations."

I can only assume someone at CSCP determined that not enough locals were paying tolls...

...often against the Community Speedwatch people and their supporters, at which point they rather tend to lose interest. At least then the scheme has had a positive effect in that they can no longer claim that it's only "other", "lower" people that speed.

As we know, these Sanctimonious Anonymous groups tend to lose interest anyway sooner rather than later. I wonder if any speedwatch "initiative" anywhere in the country has lasted more than a year? Shows how much these people really care about safety.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

I believe that this may be a breach of the Data Protection Act. Since they cannot prosecute, they do not have 'reasonable cause' to access the data, nor can the S.35 exemption apply.

The Police may use the PNC in order to send out waste paper (sorry, warning letters).

I think that they should be prosecuted for the DPA breach along with the DVLA for supplying it to them. I didn't see any option to not have my details given out to all and sundry when I registered/taxed/MOT'd my car.



I can't understand why someone who is a spokeperson for a group who are happy to be in the press would not supply their name. Fear of reprisals?



I'm sure the police would be interested in anyone racing, but I get the impression that is an inflammatory remark placed by the journalist.



Add this to the fact that the police seem to approve this group, aren't the police encouraging vigilante groups?

Edited to add
Why can't this lot go back to demonstrating against too much sex, drugs and violence on TV like they used to in the 70's and 80's

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Prepare to be Judged

Yet 'the powers that be' frown upon residents setting up vigilante schemes for, say, burglars, mugging etc... Why's this any different? Can we be issued with cameras and stab-vests and go around reporting the local chavscum for offences? Hmmmm.

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Yes we can. They are called pcso's or to be more honest pvcso's. No power of arrest but they can issue fines.

Sorry, I can't think of any (sensible) word for the "V". Or maybe it was a reference to PVC. Whatever it is, I'm unsure enough to ask.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

I think he/she is referring to pvc (plastic) so's

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

I don't feel this is a very good analogy. The "vigilante" speed gun wielders are not PCSOs. The original tongue-in-cheek question remains. Why are actions against allegedly lawbreaking speeders condoned while public action against other supposed criminals is discouraged?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Speeders rarely stab? (Or do anything else, including exceeding the posted limit, which will jeopardise human well-being)