Safe Speed Forums

Rather a nasty assumption you've made about me there George. I have 3 points on my licence and they were for encroaching on a 40mph dual carriageway in Cardiff. I'm no speed deamon but like most of us I make the odd error in this area because I try to drive safely. I would like to think you would be hard pushed to find a more courtious and considerate driver. The BIGGER picture is that North Wales is suffering due to a loss in tourism and this loss will, if not checked, kill the tourism industry. The arguments that this slump is due to foot and mouth is bull, everywhere else has picked up nicely, so lets think,,,what could be causing the persisting problem of visitors not going to N Wales???? Could it possibly be the number of cameras pointing at the roads rather than the countryside?

Prosperity relies on industry. Industry relies on communications. Communications rely on roads.

If you are too anti-traffic then you will get what you deserve, A gradual slide into economic decay. And one day the subsidies you enjoy at the expense of the taxpayers in the rest of the UK will dry up for good. There are not enough tourists to keep Wales alive.

It’s you call, personaly I don't go to Wales by choice, nothing there to interest me, apart from motor racing at Anglesey..

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Speed camera policy Kills

If there is nothing in Wales to interest you, there is little in you that interests Wales.

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The tourist £ will be of interest to many people in Wales.

And I'm sure a lot of discretionary leisure journeys are going elsewhere because of the perception that motorists are persecuted in North Wales.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

If that means less traffic on the 55, and that some part of Wales remain uncommercialised, that's a good thing. I'm sure that tourists who respect Wales are welcome. Speeders who are not interested in Wales are not welcome. As for the slot machine emporiums of Rhyl and Colwyn Bay, who could care less?

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I thought we'd agreed that virtually all motorists are "speeders" on occasion. Given that, your language is, err, faulty and prejudicial.

If North Wales stops welcoming motorists there will be very serious impacts on the local economy. Isn't touism the biggest "industry"?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Hmmmm. I know a few companies that are failing to attract qualified people to come to wales to work. One of the biggest problems for new technology and engineering businesses there.....Wonder why...

Anyone remember Fenner??? They move a site from Hull to Wales. Tried to move the staff but nobody wanted to go. The result...Disaster.

Justice for companies chasing grant money and making people redundant elsewhere in the process.

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Speed camera policy Kills

You have things back to front. Surely you have heard that tourists go because they like it in north Wales, not because north Wales likes tourists! Tourism brings in a few quid for the slot machine emporiums and binge drinking bars of Rhyl and Colwyn Bay, and I expect some cleaning staff make a minimal existence from it. After all, most of the tourist industry is run by English ex-patriots who think they have died and gone to heaven!

But Flintshire is an all together different matter. It has (I believe) the best wages of any Welsh region, with the exception of the capital, Cardiff. In fact, it attracts labour from across the border in England! In my view, tourists are an obstacle to be avoided via the back lanes where possible. I can't speak for the rest of Wales, although they seem like a robust bunch to me and most likely couldn't care less about Saxon tourists.

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So by calming and slowing the traffic on a local road (which is what the A5 now is) which was of course built and designed for 15-20mph operation there will be more deaths? - Balderdash!

I frequently go to Wales - no I don't drive but several others do. Not one of them has ever had a speeding ticket in Wales or anywhere else. Neither are they put off by a strict speeding policy - in fact many are encouraged by it.

You see we're not boy-racers.

George, you're trying to move the goal posts, and you're wrong too.

We have to consider all the side effects of the means of speed reduction set against the benefits of reduced speeds. I have found NO BENEFIT from the vast majority of schemes of speed reduction, and I find very worrying side effects and very worrying national trends - 7,200 dead to date - that I am quite certain are caused by bad road safety policy.

Crashes happen when drivers make mistakes. They are a problem in psychology - not physics - and speed cameras are very bad psychology.

Some schemes of traffic calming (e.g. self explaining roads) are good psychology and might work well.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The A5 through Snowdonia is a green primary route and therefore a strategic through route - far more than just a local road. It has been extensively improved since the days of Telford and to claim that speeds above 40 mph are unsafe is ludicrous.


Ah yes, these mythical law-abiding drivers. I'm sure their tune would change as soon as one is nabbed by one of Brunstrom's Talivans.


Neither are any of those arguing against you.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

No, we have never heard of Fenner and we hope we never hear of it again! The whole point of north Wales is that it isn't an industrialised place like Hull, for goodness sake. Let's keep it that way by keeping things slow... e.g. the 5 between Pentre Foelas and BYC, which is a death trap. The 5 in the Ogwen Valley, which is a good place, should have no more improvments at all. On a good day, you might average 5 cars a minute up that road, which is how it should stay.

I just wished the 55 had stayed as it was. Now the Clwyd Vale is a mess, and the coast is hosed from Pensarn to Bangor.

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Are any modern roads designed for 15-20mph operation? That's nuts. The only roads that were arguably designed for such a low speed (and I doubt they actually had any particular speed in mind at the time) have still got cobbles on. BTW the only cobbled road I can think of off the top of my head is the older part of Guildford High Street, which had a 30mph limit last time I was there (well, evenings and Sundays anyway - it's pedestrianised the rest of the time).

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Well Bas it would appear Flintshire council have different ideas.
I can't compare on wages but aren't high wages are a sign of boom or impending bust.

Are they the same clowns who showed themselves up in the Sutton case? This report tells a fine tale of misdeeds and lies. Flintshire council can't run a bath, never mind a county!



Does that make low wages a sign of wisdom and continuity? I know which I prefer!

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Then stop offering grants to move industry there!!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/967901.stm

Also:-



You can't have it both ways...

Some people are never satisfied..

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Speed camera policy Kills

No mention of grants whatsoever in that story, Gizmo.



No mention of which city in that story! Come on, give me something to work with! I can assume it is St. Asaph. St. Asaph occupies a beautiful part of the vale that has been spoiled by the 55. Now that the abysmal 55 has brought massive traffic to the area, planners want to blow a road up the back of the Elwy valley (which is lovely), to work around the problem they have created for themselves. That will force the bottleneck to Denbigh and Ruthin (lovely old towns) and they will be spoiled as well, moving the bottleneck along, and bringing pollution, noise and speeders. No thanks, Gizmo. Keep it in Hull.

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http://www.stasaph.co.uk/

Both stories relate to St Asaph. A place I have had cause to go to on several occations. Looks like on the one hand the reagonal development agency wants new business out there. But the locals don't want the conjestion that comes with it.

If you go courting automotive manufacturers you see the impact of daily deliveries on your roads. Also the fact that many of the workers comute great distances to work there.

The TRB factory was only situated there because of the grants and subsidies offered. They were in competition with the Midlands.

Like I said you can't have it both ways.

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Speed camera policy Kills

You got it. St Apash was a nice place a few years back, but then the 55 came. The 55, and it's partner, the 14 (another contention road) were funded by Europe as a east/west route to Holyhead and Ireland. Trouble is, it has brought lamentable commuter belt consumerism in it's wake.



That's right. Today, Wales is a good place to live but a crap place to work. These roads cause lots of unnecessary journeys in pursuit of Mammon, and are ruining the countryside at the same time. If things go on as they are, in 50 years we could end up in the same situation as England - a good place to work but a crap place to live.

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Thats the second thing we agree on....

Now I am getting worried

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Speed camera policy Kills