Safe Speed Forums

Could you depress the clutch, turn off the ignition and then use the clutch as a sort of reverse braking system, as you let it out the engine will cause braking to happen.... Or is that just really silly and really dangerous...

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Mike

Only just caught up with this:

Brakes: Pumping is good - and if you get a pedal on one of the early pumps, make the most of it - decelerate as much as possible.

If the pedal is gone, get it in the lowest gear you can WITHOUT double-declutching - don't want to give extra energy into the system.

Handbrake - modulate it. Pull as hard as you can but let it go again if the wheels lock on, being prepared to correct any skid - then do it again.. and again.

Bump into the kerbs and, in emergency, graze a wall rather than welly into the back of something or hurtle too fast into a corner.

Blowout: As Paul said - spot the telltale warning signs and get speed down before this becomes an issue. If one does go, leave the brakes alone until you've got the car almost stationary through natural speed loss with your foot off. Ok, there may have to be a compromise with gentle braking if you're running out of road.

If you've got time to bugger about like this, you may as well just take your foot off and coast to a halt through the gears!

Seriously - a number of things very risky about this:

1) turning the key too far may lock the steering (it shouldn't but...)

2) Power steering will at least temporarily disappear

3) All indicator functionand brake lights - might be vital to let others know what you're up to - will disappear

4) On overrun, you have virtually as much deceleration with engine braking whether the engine is switched on or not.

Just thought though - a couple of other useful things to supplement brake failure in stopping - get the engine braking component higher - switch on everything to give the alternator and A/C compressor lots of things to work against. Steer left and right like racing drivers on the warm up lap too to get additional engine braking via the P/S pump.

Seems to me that a rear tyre blowout is going to quite like serious braking. (Don't try this at home.)

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

You'll get MUCH more benefit through tyre scrub than power steering pump load.

If you have the skill and the presence of mind to put the thing full sideways, you'll get 0.9g full panic braking effect, but the trouble is that I'm not at all sure that anyone really has that skill. Some could manage 360 degrees of spin or more (given the space).

The problem is that I don't have a clue about how to control yaw once you're at 90 degree to the direction of travel. Maybe you can do it with the steering? Handbrake?

I am pretty sure my lizard brain would throw on a lot of steering if there was a collision situation ahead and no brakes. This falls into the category of 'never stop driving'.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

On how much pressure to blow out a tyre through over-inflation, it was on Fifth Gear last week (?), but they had to use specialised high pressure gear and Nitrogen only for safety, but it was 300psi before the tyre went BANG! Well beyond the capability of any public tyre inflator system. Will depend of tyre condition, but in general tyres only go through damage, and other than hitting or going over something sharp, under-inflation is the problem.

According to one of Tiff Needel's "How to Drive like a Hooligan" videos, you keep put until nearing 180degs (going backwards) then you stab the footbrake to lock the front wheels and swing the front back round, straightening the wheel like there's no tomorrow to catch it going forwards again.

I did actually use one of his manouvers once in anger.........wasn't the 360deg spin though

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I once suffered complete brake failure in an old Avenger estate. I was living on Ketts Hill in Norwich (quite steep for those that know it and ending in a roundabout). I must have had a leak in the brake pipes and the system had as good as emptied over night. When I set off down the hill the next day (fortunatly a quiet Sunday morning) I pressed the pedal and it went straight to the floor, I wasnt travelling too fast and nothing was coming the otherway so I turned right into an uphill side turning. The heart was going a bit!

The only other total brake failure I have had is when I didnt bother to do up my shoe laces and trapped one in the door when I shut it. The first time I tried to brake (Ketts Hill again!) I couldnt reach the pedal! In panic I swing my foot over hard and the lace came free, like the bottle under the pedal you dont do it twice.

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Nick

My first car was a MkII Volkswagen Polo. Right hand drive versions of that car did not have servo-assisted brakes as there was no room on the (UK) driver's side of the engine bay for a master cylinder AND servo and VW had not considered (or not bothered with) the engineering solution of having a cross-bar from the left to the right side of the engine bay to operate the cylinder. That taught me to understand the difference between servo and non-servo assisted brakes.

A common aftermarket conversion was to add a remote servo (culled from a Metro) on the RHS of the engine bay - interesting pipework!!

Let's face it! In practical terms, chucking the car sideways isn't really an option for us mere mortals! Besides, most cars generally give the best crash protection in forward impact!

If you are going to weave to slow down, it would pay to rehearse this on a safe bit of ground, to see what the optimum amount of deflection is desirable without getting understeer. (Have I got that correct?) anyway, if you are following a numpty down a hill who keeps riding the brake, and there is nobody behind, give it a try, and see how much speed you scrub off (and tyres! ) without recourse to the brake pedal.
Allow a margin if the road is WET, as you dont want to over do it!!

It's worth asking passengers to brace for impact I suppose if you have time, but I'm not sure of the best way to alert other drivers to the fact you have a problem - in my Peugeot, heavy braking brings on the hazards - but not sure if this is down to pedal effort, or G's!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I thought that "under-steer" is exactly what you are looking for - when the tyres are sliding sideways (even only a little) as that is what scrubs off the forward momentum. The danger however is that the fronts grip too hard and the unloaded rears swing around - it will stop you quickly, but you don't have much control unless you practice swinging the wheel around very fast to get that balanced sideways position. Not something that I plan on trying on a motorway.

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned more about using a third party - for example if on a crowded motorway and the brakes fail, rather than trying to avoid the other vehicles you aim to be square on so that they slow you both down on their brakes. Yes there will be a collision, but a low relative speed one, and nobody is likely to be killed - trying to weave and scrub off speed might cause a spin after which you will be t-boned and two or move vehicles will have serious crashes with much more personal injury.

The other feature to use is the gravel trap - in some places with steep mountain roads (France?) they deliberately have run-off areas with deep gravel to stop HGVs or other vehicles (just like F1). While they are not common in the UK there is often gravel at the sides of Motorways for drainage that can fulfill a similar purpose, especially if you then maintain pressure on the armco to increase friction by steering against it (OK your car is wreaked, but if it is the car or your child which would you choose?).

And of course the most obvious (which has been mentioned before) is to go up a hill - even if it isn't technically a road. Slip roads are quite good for this.

Funny you should say that...I had exactly the same experience in a 2CV at 80 on the M6 once. No drama at all. Geat cars, Citroens!

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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the kerb.

Your description of the wheel nuts sounds exactly like what my Dad reported. You tightened them up once and no matter how tight they were, they would fall off. But 2nd attempt they would stay on. Apparently this happened every single time a wheel was removed for whatever reason. Don't know if they were alloys or not - well over 20 years since the car was scrapped. The only photo I've seen of it in recent times showed it having wheels that looked like discs, probably just disc-like wheel trims over steel wheels, but not certain.
The other cool thing I remember about this car was the drum-like speedometer. No needles, just a rotating drum with the numbers on it. And the complete lack of steering wheel control stalks - everything controlled by buttons. It was certainly a 'unique' car

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Why can't we just use Common Sense?

You got a 2CV up to 80??

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Why can't we just use Common Sense?

It's not that unusual - most 2CV's can do 0 - 80 in less than a fortnight...

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Hi everyone. I'm a regular spectator here, but this is my first post.
The mention earlier of asking passengers to brace for impact sort of reminded me of a conversation I had a few years ago. I was in a Mk2 Cavalier driving from Bristol to Taunton on the A38 when my brake servo died. (luckily traffic was light!) The following conversation was thus:
Me: I've lost my brakes
Passenger: Oh.
(slight pause)
Me: Do you want a fag?
Passenger: Oh go on then

Needless to say, neither of us panicked

Hamlet cigars (accompanied by the music) would've been good.

my two scariest nightmares were:

A blow out on the front right tyre of a commer van going round a clover leaf shaped junction, I crossed two lanes of the duel c/way and ended up in the gravel. The cause was a car tyre fitted to a 15cwt van

The other was finding out that the slightly over heting escort was not the radiator but an inferno that had melted almost everything under the bonnet, The next scare came when trying to pull over and bail out that one of those things melted was the brakes master cyilnder!

I rang the fire brigade from the pub and watched as it melted the rest of the car.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

In a Land Rover on the M5 when the gearbox went, locking all four wheels.

We thought our troubles were over when we'd skidded to the hard shoulder; it was a sh1t of a job dragging it on to the tow truck.