Safe Speed Forums

Funnily enough, the only horse-related rudeness I've experienced is from a cyclist accompanying a horse. As I approached the horse/bike duo head on, doing about twenty and intending to slow a bit more, the biker steered out into my path and started shouting "Slow down!" at me.

Odd really, as I was slowing down. The lady on the horse looked rather embarrassed at the cyclist's behaviour, and the horse looked uninterested.

Since then, I've seen the same duo. I slowed to a piss-taking crawl. The horse-rider smiled and waved; the cyclist glared at me, and looked like he was muttering profanities. Some people!

I used to like VAS but now I tend to ignore them.

Why? Not because there are so many that they lose their impact but because of some of the cheaper implementations that are springing up.

The ones that flash up the 30 limit at the start of a village if you're over the limit, ok fair enough, I'm over the limit slow down a bit.

Now we see ones that flash up the speed limit or other messages regardless of the speed that you're doing, or are just inaccurate.

"ok fair enough I'm going too fast" has changed to "fuck off, I'm only doing 25"

If you do the run from Banbury to Rugby you'll encounter one warning you of a crossroads, regardless of speed you're doing (and immediately followed by a huge no-overtaking stretch that anyone with good observation and anticipation skills could perform a safe overtake on) as well as one advising of a sharp right hand bend which is quite obviously sharp, not deceptive or anything.

Both of these will go off even if you're stuck behind a tractor doing 20, so I ignore them.

Cry wolf enough times.. well you know the rest.


Edit: What if a gatso facing the other way goes off. Wouldn't that scare a horse more than the VAS?

Having worked with horses for many years I have often been appalled at the so called Road Safety Information ads that used to be shown on TV. I firmly believe that it is no good just telling/advising drivers to slow down around horses without telling them why! To me and many other horsey people it is pretty obvious, but to the uninitiated we cannot expect it to be.

People have said to me, if the horse is scared of traffic he shouldn't be on the road.

My first response is usually that the horse wa on the road long before the car! I then explain that the horse is not necessarily scared of cars, lorries, motorcycles, etc, but the main reason for vehicles to slow down is that should the animal be spooked by whatever, a bird or animal in the ditch or hedgerow for example, the driver is able to stop quickly and easily without adding to the problem with squealing brakes. The reason for the driver stopping is that it is very rare for a horse to hit a stationary object, but if both horse and vehicle are trying to dodge each other, the chances are they will meet at some point.

Common sense when you think about it. Hope it helps too.

A bit of devils advocate here perhaps, but if my car was so tempremental that, say, getting a bird stuck in the intercooler scoop caused it to veer wildly and randomly off the road then there would be product recalls, liability claims and requests for drivers of similarly affected cars to not drive them until the problem is fixed.

Yet it's ok for a horse that exhibits the exact same faults to be used on the road (and to shit all over it)

You can't draw a comparison between a living animal and a machine. Frankly, I want to dissociate myself from your remarks and reassure lynladd that most regulars on this site are entirely sympathetic to other road users, including horses and their riders.

I did say that it was devils advocate did I not?

FWIW I generally have little problem with horse riders. You slow down for them just like you would for a cyclist and they're usually decent enough about being overtaken once you do so safely. It's easy enough to get past them since they're so slow. Plus there's so few of them on the road that it's just not worth getting bothered about it anyway.

Horseboxes OTOH is a different matter, at least the ones that do 50 on the straights, 5 on the corners and never let anyone past.

To be fair, we let untrained drivers on the road who are liable to do anything until they get used to it. We call them "learners".

On the other hand, I agree with the point about horse transports. I'm afraid to say I can't EVER remember one pulling over to let people past.

Again playing devil's advocate I used to ride horses and am appalled at some of the riders around my way, most of whom are from a stable about 3 miles down the road from me, I often see young inexprienced riders taking a horse on a lead sometimes with a learner rider on very busy roads, I often see two riders two abreast on the same busy roads, along side one of these roads is a public common with a trail alongside the road that horses are allowed on.

The riders do not seem aware of other road users and often appear to have very little control over thier mounts.

After witnessing a few near misses I went into the riding school to raise this point, it was done very politely and I tried to be sympathetic as an ex horse rider, I was told by one of the instructors to F*!k Off and I later phoned the owner of the school who apologised for her staff's reponse and pointed out that a lot of the riders were not under instruction but had thier horses stabled there.

The riding school I went to were adamant that learners were not allowed on the road under ANY circumastances - they were kept in the menarge or out in the fields. Any riders who stabled were required to abide by the rules, including riding in a safe manner on the roads, if they were caught or complaints made then they would have to go elsewhere.

A big difference, the stables I learnt to ride at were owned by a couple who had a strong involvement with the household cavelry who whilst defending thier riders rights were also very quick to ensure riders were also responsible and the stable near me are taking the attitude that we can do what we want.


I still give plenty of space to them as IMO they are more likely to do something stupid when I pass.

As for VAS again we are using them like a kid in a toyshop, on the A414 there is one that is nearly always on when there is a car about, granted there have been a lot of shunts at that junction a 'Hidden Junction' sign would not go amiss, with the VAS activated closer to than the speed limit - from what I've seen it appears to be activating at about 15-20mph below the posted limit.

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

I live in Hampshire where there are a lot of riding stables but also hundreds of square miles of countryside. Why then, do horse riders ride their steeds on the roads and risk conflict with traffic?

Conversely, I am always very careful not to spook any animals in the New Forest as that is their domain.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

VAS has been undermined by the ones which trigger and read the wrong speed. Kendal had one like this recently, and everyone I spoke to who mentioned them said the same thing - "I was'nt even doing 30!"

JT mentioned the "SLOW DOWN" signs on the A590 - funnily enough, the westbound one triggers at a ridiculously low speed, while the eastbound one is fine. This particular section of road until recently had illuminating cats eyes - but they were taken away amid concerns that youths were travelling the section of road at night with no lights at speed, in some sort of hi-speed game! Even older drivers seem to regard this bit of road as an excuse to throw their car round the corners as if imitating Michael Schumacker - then meet an artic on it's way to ASDA which is close to the centre line, and panic!
It's crying out to be engineered to be made safe!

Horses!!
We have them, and in general, the riders are aware of their resonsibilities, and behave helpfully - on some of the lanes, when they can see the way ahead is clear, they wave you past, or wave you down because something is coming the other way. A bigger danger here now is farmers moving handfulls of sheep across and along roads, and instead of walking ahead and behind with a red flag as they once did, simply follow behind on a quad bike, taking no precautions to warn other traffic at all.

Locals become aware, but tourists are often caught out!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Speaking of moving livestock across roads, one of the farmers down the road from where I work has a dairy herd. My boss mentioned in passing that one day said farmer was moving his cattle across the road and to keep them from straying extended electric fence wire right across the road WITHOUT any markers!

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

hi all
i work in central london and have to avoid horses.well the hosehold cavalry to be exact,true they are extreemly professional and its a joy to follow especially when the bands playing...the south carriage drive hydepark, is home to other riders some army and public. road awareness by both driver and rider is both profesional and polite. .on the other hand cyclists please dont get me started
goldy

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Audere Est Facere.....To Dare Is To Do

Some of the VAS can be activated a long way before the vehicle reaches them. I know of several where they are triggered by vehicles still outside the speed limit.

I one case, Billockby Bottom junction, on the A1064 between Acle and Fleggburgh, in Norfolk, it would seem to be triggered from about half a mile away.

If there happened to be a horse next to one of these signs as it flashed it would be possible for the horse to be frightened into the path of a passing vehicle.

I wondered if the VAS have counters in them to record what proportion of vehicles were supposedly exceeding the speed limit, so as to provide an excuse for deploying a mobile speed camera at the location.

Don't tell Poole council, they just bought 14 of them! (1 per camera site?) I think they're the kind which rapidly flash a number which is meant to have some relation to the speed you are doing. I'm not convinced on their accuracy though.

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Andrew.

Oh god. We go to Poole most weekends throughout the summer, so that's going to be fun!

Its funny, for a town with so many boats / jetskis / general trailers about the locals still seem to have no idea about staying clear...

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Ah I bet you'll be on the quay on sunday afternoons...


No, they don't....

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Andrew.

You'll catch us on Baiter slip at about 9am most Saturday mornings. It takes us about 2.5 - 3 hours to get down there so unfortunately Sunday's usually out whether we've got the boat or the bikes. We noormally don't get home til the wee hours.

We are spending bank holiday weekend down there camping with some friends though.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.