Safe Speed Forums

Brilliant!

I just got my second speeding ticket in 3 months

Didn't have one since 1998 in Aylesbury. Probably deserved that one. I was driving through Aylesbury city centre during the morning rush and was doing about 45mph in a 30 zone. I think I can swallow that under the circumstances. But the 2 I've had this year are a different matter!

First one was in North Wales! Well surprise surprise I can hear every one say! Yes! North Wales! That area of the UK so impoverished by lack of government funding that the North Wales policeforce finance themselves shafting thousands of innocent drivers going about their everyday business, trying to eek out an existance in this shithole of a country. And what were the mitiging circumstances in this case. Well, firstly it was a sunday so the traffic was very light, it was on a stretch of the A5, on a dead straight piece of road in good driving conditions. 64mph in a 50mph zone the ticket said!
Crime of the century! Did my driving constitute a risk to myself, other road users or members of the general public under the circumstances? Were there hoards of schoolchildren or OAPs in the vicinity...on a sunday morning on a main trunk road? Were there fuck!

Incident No2 occurs on the southbound A21 at the exit for Tonbridge and Southborough. I had a day off work and decided to drive to Hastings for some seaside fresh air. What a mistake to think i was going to have an enjoyable day relieved of the stress of living in the most overtaxed overregulated country in the modern industrialised world!
It was a gorgeous sunny morning, not a cloud in the sky, the roof is down. It's 11.52am when I get flashed by the camera. 84mph in 70mph limit. It's a weekday and there's not another car in sight at this time of the day but the fascists who implemented the policy of extorting my money from me have decided yet again that my actions have greviously endangered the lives of thousands of people. I am a Hiroshima bomb on wheels! Bye bye to another 60 quid and 3 more points on my license.

So in the space of 3 months, I've suddenly found myself 1/2 way to having my driving license revoked! I wonder how many 10's of thousands of people find themselves in this situation. And this has happened despite the fact i have never caused an accident, never injured or killed anyone in 20 years of driving!

It must be clear to anyone with even the most modest number of braincells that this whole exercise is the most unspeakable con. We are being robbed, fleeced and fucked over by a system determined to find more and more ways to tax people. The argument that so many speed cameras are there to protect lives and prevent serious injury is so laughable, so pathetic, it just isn't even worthy of discussion! WHY BOTHER even talking about it? Fuck what the statistics and the politicians say! They are lying, thieving, cheating scum of the earth. It doesn't matter which side of the political spectrum they are from either. Forget pursuing any political or so called democratic means of preventing legitimised theft on this scale. They all know what a good earner it is for the system and they wont relinquish the huge amount of revenue they are receiving through speed cameras under any circumstances other than mass civil disobedience

There is ONLY ONE way to tackle this problem

NATIONAL.... TOTAL.... ABSOLUTE.... CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE

MAKE THE BASTARDS LIVES HELL!!!!

Never accept a conditional offer. Write back and tell them you want the case heard in court

Plead not guilty for the hell of it

Write to the police force concerned and tell them you wish to see documentry evidence that the camera is functioning properly, properly calibrated etc. Ask for photographic evidence. Dent that the vehicle in the photo is your car. Deny that you were the driver! ANYTHING...just ANYTHING to make their lives as miserable and shitty as you can!

OR

Just ignore the NIP altogether

What are they gonna do if THOUSANDS of people just refuse to play ball

I've asked for a court appearance. If anyone has any ideas how I can screw the bastards and waste their money, mail me at mattsta1964@yahoo.co.uk

I would have ticketed you for that and given you my special lecture ....




They stream out of Chapel on a Sunday there .........

Hmmm! Might have pulled you for it up here - given you right earache and NIP issued if you called me rude names over it. If deemed dangerous - fixed penalty and HORT/1 and would have crawled all over your car checking all your other bits and bobs - but if thought you genuinely accepted you were in the wrong = then might just at scraping the barrel pinch let you off with acid ticking off ringing inyour ears.... and advice as to where to get some driving instructions and tuition .....



Language! young man! They were coming out of Chapel and there are sheep and tractors to consider as well.

Besides it is "aginst the Loahhh!"



tsst!

You are supposed to behave yourself all the more after getting done for speeding! Perhaps - you may not have exceeded limit a second time as my warning would have still been ringing in your ears from the first one!

How early was it? Chances are again - may have made you cringe a lot if this was first time seen by me! Or if second time I'd seen you in three months - then you would have got serious roasting ....



Always a first time! But - yes - will agree that PC Gatso does not give same value for money - you may indeed have got an NIP from me for either one of these "offences" - and you can rest assured it would have been done fairly - without rubbing salt into your hurt pride - but you would also have received advice and general safety tips and observation tips (round lollipops ..... on side of road - and so on!)



Not exactly a just over blip though But for record - I do not like speed cameras that much either. Do admit that we use mobile ones in my patch - and we lark around side streets to cop you - and we do it with style - but you get our lectures as well - so you get value for your money!



Can see you are angry mate - but if I had been on road at time - I would have pulled you. May not necessarily have issued ticket -if felt warning would do. Certainly - and it sounds complacent of me maybe - but I do doubt you would have committed the second offence so quickly after the first if you had had the ticking off from us in person! (Which is why cameras do not work - people do not get the message - just the anger and resentement!)



I would agree that clogging up the court system is one way of showing a mass protest at the speed camera issue. Especially the "just over" as there are thousands as I understand.

But you have problem with two offences at 14 mph in both cases in less than 3 months.

I would strongly advise a look at the pepipoo site before you do anything rash and in anger.

I can understand why you are angry - and have to say - I would still have pulled you and had words with you for a 14mph overspeed - and action would have depended on my own observations and assessment of actual situation. You may have gone away cringing from very strong words...and possibly more ....



They are not obliged to show you until court case.

Not wise to make a bad situation worse either.

In any case - you cannot deny the car in the phot is your car if if meets with descriiption in log book and DVLA records.

As for denying you were driver - loop holes are closing to point of closed.

Like I say - check out pepipoo and ABD's legal helpline for some advice before you do something you may regret. Though I suspect you are angry and letting off steam here. (And I am a nice cuddly guy really!)



Not a good idea to ignore this document - they can give you at least 3 points for this and you will be in serious danger of losing your licence.

Like I say - try pepipoo for advice as to how to behave at court to mitigate the situation and to keep fine and costs down as much as possible.

How amusing it is that coppers always manage to sound so bloody sanctimonious and self righteous. Oh! I'd cringe alright. I'd cringe at your piety. The golden halo aboveth your head gloweth in an aura of spendourous perfection.

You can be absolutely assured that any roadside lecture from yourself or any other copper would not be met with any deference. I wouldn't pay much attention to your lecture because i simply haven't done anything wrong other than break someone else's law, a law which is designed to thieve, rob and steal motorists' money under totally false pretences. It is a scandal that this is happening and we allow ourselves to be traeted in this way.

I can only repeat that in both instances, I had done nothing to endanger either my own safety or the safety of other road users, members of the general public, local wildlife or passing UFO's.

I am no different from most of the other decent law abiding citizens of this third rate country. I don't beat up old grannies, I don't rip people off, I pay ludicrously high taxes and get nothing in return, AND I do not object to speed cameras if they are located in positions where excessive speed is a genuine road safety issue. I put my hands up to the indcident in Aylesbury in 1998 cos I was clearly in the wrong. I was in a built up area at a busy time of the day. there were school kids walking to school etc etc. Fair enough! I got what I deserved. But why does driving at 84mph on an empty dual carriageway in perfect driving conditions constitute a risk? And why should someone automatically have their license endorsed for such an offence.

We are supposed to be living in a democracy. We are supposed to be 'free.' We are supposed to be able to argue about injustice. Try it in court though and you'll probably end up with an even bigger fine and a couple extra points on yer license for the cheek of having spoken out of line. Instead, we are creating a society where people are genuinely scared to travel anywhere by car. It REALLY is that bad! Travelling by car in this country is fast becoming an Orwellian nightmare! You spend more time looking in the hedges for coppers with rayguns and Gatso cameras than you do looking at the road. If I have to travel to unfamiliar territory nowadays, I prefer to take a train. Travelling in unfamiliar parts of the country is simply too risky. I certainly will not be returning to north Wales. No doubt, there are a lot of people who feel the same. How counterproduce is the policy of robbing people eh? Thousands of people like myself who might previously have visisted Wales to climb in Snowdonia or whatever simply wont bother anymore. So any money the system has robbed off people using speed cameras will be offset by peoples' reluctance to travel to Wales and spend money there. How sad! How pathetic! How shortsighted are the people who are making this happen?

Thanks for the advice copper. Don't forget to polish yer halo before you're out on the road this morning nicking people will you

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Living in the UK is like eating a bile sandwich. It leaves a bitter taste in yer mouth

Your attitude makes me cringe In Gear. Like so many policemen you sound as if you are only doing the job to make yourself feel powerful and in control of others, instead of protecting the public from crime.

Mattsta. I can understand you frustration at the A21 camera. It is in a strange place. On the southbound carriage just before the turn off into Tonbridge and onto the A26.

I travel this road quite a bit I think that any accidents here are likely to be due to a number of factors.

1. Traffic exiting from a layby a short distance from the junction / camera site

2. Traffic trying to exit from the A21 late you see this all the time on motorways people in lane 2 or 3 cutting across to lane one and the exit in one movement.

3. I think that the most probable cause/location for accidents here is not on the A21 itself but on the slip road as the A26 joins up with the slip road. With traffic coming from Tonbridge giving way to the traffic on the slip road, with the slip road then becoming the A26.

So fast moving traffic 70mph on the A21 has to break to 30mph on the slip road, 2 lanes of traffic on the slip road, and be aware of traffic trying to get onto the slip road from the left two lanes of traffic from Tonbridge. Whilst the slip road curves around to the right and becomes the A26. A real dogs dinner of a junction

See below taken from The Association of British Drivers web site http://www.abd.org.uk/
on the local issues Kent page.
there is a picture of the camera site.
and the following.



The camera should I think be sited on the slip road but they cannot put it there because the road curves around.

Note I think that they may be about to add another camera about 3 mile north of here they have been erecting camara signs etc.

Also as a Tuvelo that cannot be turned around I don't have to worry about this camera site on on the bike.

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tanj There Ain't No Justice

So you'd give In Gear a damned good ignoring because you know best Just remind me again, how many speeding tickets have you had in the past three months that caused you to come pouring out invective and expletives? So ignore him and get two more
Break 'someone else's' law? What in heavens name is that supposed to mean, do you consider certain laws of this nation don't apply to you?
Sadly mate your attitude is precisely that which the scamerati love to portray as typical of the arrogant speeders who think they know best and gives them the oxygen they need to breathe life into tehir campaign for more cameras.

Check out http://www.policespecials.com/forum/
Some of the stuff they post makes me cringe. Worth a peek though. The stuff on the law is priceless...

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Speed camera policy Kills

Also check out..http://www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14273Maybe not all police are in favour of speed limits!!!

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Speed camera policy Kills

Me? Power crazed? I am not called Dick Ed- nor do I behave anything like!


Listen my son! (Could call you "sonny" but then the Mad Lad would attack in reality and not on here!)

I protect the public from crime!

From "crimes" from boy racers, illegal drivers, drunk drivers, drugged drivers, tailgaters, lane hoggers, numpties in general, dope pushers, rapists, crazed men running around waving knives around, am trained in fire arms too - so I get call outs to other nasties as well...

To date - have been threatened with knives, and a gun, shot at, gobbed on, vomited over, spat on, had missiles thrown at me, kicked in the ghoulies (yup - had a squeaky voice and walked in funny way for a while afterwards ... and my poor wife did do without as well ) - and all trying to protect you lot!

OK - so if burglar is actually in the house - that is priority and I floor it to get there. If burglar has been and long gone - we class it as urgent - but it can get pushed down list of priority because I get called to something more urgent.

That is the problem - priorities and whilst I would like to get to you within seconds of your call - circumstances and other more urgent matters may push you back in the queue.

Now I know that is not what you want to hear - because I know only too well that to you - at that moment you discover some scrote has broken into your home or into your car and invaded your space - you see this as most upsetting thing in your life. But - if somebody needs me more - I have to be there where most needed.

And we would just love to be able to have the staff to help everyone as required - but economics, chance, fate cannot accommodate this ....

More later - wifey is calling me and have to obey .....

So has my wife....she is a Nurse.

Sorry but I am struggling to sympathise. It's your job. Hers is to care for the sick and for that she gets £5.50 per hour

As for me, I have been mugged, had my car stolen twice, had my property broken into and my gararge torched. My children have had mobile phones stolen. To date no one has been brough to justice. I still see the mobile speed cameras at the end of the road ever week. Makes me sleep easy....I think not.

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Speed camera policy Kills

I agree - they have just as hard a time as I do!

And I have a cousin who is A&E consultant in a London hospital who puts up with the same.

The Mad Doc on here - virologist - but he has experienced A&E as well in his career to date.

I also know firemen who put themselves in grave danger, paramedics, as well as medical staff.


Some members of this family ae in teaching profession - one in a large Merseyside inner city school - not a pleasant job either.

So - not saying I have it worse than these other people - just most probably see a lot more of it than they do....on aaggregate over a working period...

My job - try to protect the public as well as enforce laws - and I use my judgement and common sense when I enforce these laws too. I tend not to enforce the plain daft ones .......

But I can tell you - being faced with a man holding a gun .... not pleasant - nor the chap who drew a knife on me on a routine check..... scary in fact! And I had not even opened my mouth to say anything either! So - he could not have reacted to any "acid lecture" either.

In Gear...

Ever wonder why you bother? Ever wondered why you didn't go into some 'worthwhile' career such as shuffling peoples money around - it certainly pays a lot more. Money is after all more important than protecting people or saving their lives (as those blinking marevelous folks at the sharp end of the NHS do)

As a recently retired member of HM Forces I've experienced the same 'it's your job' BS. Even had someone tell me I deserve to get car bombed
I sometimes think everyone in all braches of the public services should just give up and let the 'wonderful British public' drown in it's own excrement. At least it would have plenty of it's lovely money to spend - not having to pay nurses and policemen and airmen...etc.

Hello Ped

Thanks for your comments regarding the site of the speed camera on A21

A couple points here.

The layby positioned immediately before the junction is in a ridiculous place. No doubt about that. Don't see why motorists should cough up any wedge because of some road planner's wet dream gone wrong though. They should just close/move the layby to a more sensible location.

The point you make about traffic trying to exit the A21 onto the slip too late is of course an all too common problem. People trying to cut across lanes etc, but like all speed cameras, there are no mitigating circumstances (time of day, volume of traffic, driving conditions etc). Yer guilty by default! Cough up 60 squid or else and lose a quarter of yer license too for good measure. Fair? Of course it isn't!

What also strikes me as very odd is about 3 miles further along the A21, the dual carriageway ends and becomes a single lane in each direction. There is also a slip road onto the southbound A21 at this point. This section of the A21 is a notorious bottleneck. Traffic leaving Tonbridge meets traffic already on the A21 and at a point where the road narrows. Another brilliant bit of road planning! The section of the A21 immediately after this bottleneck is a notorious accident blackspot. If the muppets had any sense at all, they would have positioned the speed camera on the A21 just before this bottleneck to slow traffic down. Well!.......no such luck!

But then, like I said before, Don't be under any illusion that this is a road safety issue. It just isn't! It's a REVENUE issue.

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Living in the UK is like eating a bile sandwich. It leaves a bitter taste in yer mouth

Hello Gizmo

Like the profile pic!!

Thanx for the links too. I'll check em out tomoz

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Living in the UK is like eating a bile sandwich. It leaves a bitter taste in yer mouth

I read Maths and Physics at Uni .... thought of accountancy and teaching at one point. Took year off to decide what I wanted to do .... worked for British Council in Africa for year.

Then - lured by prospect of driving fast cars, speeding and "getting aways" with it - ended up on a grad entry scheme in the police. Pa was a cop (retired at very senior rank) and my elder brother was already there. Have younger one in Force too... Sister is a Nurse - (Gizmo ) ) and youngest sister is GP.

Guess - between us - we see the seedier side of life - and it ain't pretty!

oooer! Shades of

"Yer'll never take me alive COPPA!"





Actually - am a good Catholic Boy and Tenor in the local Choir - and if I stop you - I might ask you for six tenners! And add to your woes!




Perhaps - but my job is to enforce a law. How I interpret the law and enforce it - can be matter of common sense and personal judgement of a situation. I have no choices but to stop you if I see you drive at 14mph above a speed limit on an A road. I may indeed have let 84 mph on m/way go - if m/way was empty etc, etc. I may not even issue a fixed penalty on a pull - if deemed appropriate action to take. But - my job dictates that I have to check you out and satisfy myself as to why you were breaking the law. If I then decided that stern warning would suffice - then that is what you would get.

But with me - you at least get a chance to explain and justify to me why you were speeding - and then I would make a professional decision based on my knowledge of the law and expertise of driving a car. With a scam - you do not get this choice - nor do you get a chance to find out why your speeding was deemed dangerous.

What would you rather have? "Hidden" cam? Or me?

If I thought your driving consituted a risk to others - I would say so - and speel out what you did wrong and try to ensure you learned from it.





So - buy a useful gadget! I use a b2 gadget !

I will agree with you that the scam in question on the A21 is sneaky. I will also agree that the ones on North and South Circulars are sneaky. The A2 London-Dover is evil OK - painted yellow - but they are concealed from views.

Mad Doc has already mentioned one on A6 in Manchester. Nice friendly smiley Sid reminding drivers of 50 mph speed limit -before the scams. As you approach it - you see a 30 mph lollipop for a slip road - and lots of rear end shunts have occured because drivers saw the 30 mph sign and took that to be the limit - incorrectly

Mad lad has already sounded off on here about a dodgy mobile at Ings in Lake district.

So - I agree - dodgy practices being used - and they do nothing to help improve road safety - and they certainly undermine my job - because normally law abiding people such as yourself then see me and my pals as the enemy in league with them!

But - mattsta - you can also look at the prats' web sites to find out where their fixed scams are - and where they intend to place talivans for the days you are travelling.

My patch only has one fixed scam. We have decent cop numbers -and our website gives full disclosures of our ratings, stats, crime rates, detection rates etc.

We also give details of our mobile speed camera unit. We use a fully liveried - spot a mile off - Mercedes Vito van, and the camera is an LTI 2020 Speedscope with a 1 km range - and we hit 15 sites which are well profiled and known accident hotspots where "speed per se" has been identified as tha sole contributory factor of the RTC. In addition - we have been very active in Weardale and Teasdale because of motorbike problems., and we will attend other sites after complaints and a full site audit has been carried out. Again - though - we make sure people know we are in vicinity. Unlike some others - our patch does not do "entrapment. "






I always polish my halo, my boots, my handcuffs, and press my trousers, wear a crisp clean white and well ironed shirt before I start work.

What self respecting BiB would not!!

Good for you.

About 4 years ago I was driving home from work. I was recovering from a very stressful day. I got pulled over by a Panda car and lectured about doing 45 in a 30 limit. I was amazed. Because I was so wound up it had affected my ability to judge speed and distance. I suspect that because he was on his own he could not have taken it further but now whenever I am behind the wheel after a stressful day I remember the the time I was pulled over and it helps me re-focus on my driving.

If I had been caught by a camera it would have just p*ssed me off and I would not be a better driver because of it.

Enforcement does not necessarily mean punishment. In road safety terms it should more linked to education. Unless you are of the "screw the motorist" mentality.

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Speed camera policy Kills

When I was a young and inexperienced driver I found myself driving at 50 mph + in a 30 zone, at night, and during a heavy shower of rain. I was showing off to a girl who I was seeing at the time, and to her brother, who was a right little scallywag with numerous counts of TWOC to his name. This embarassing display took place over no more than a quarter of a mile before I saw those blue lights twinkling in my mirror. Taking control of my senses and ignoring the advice from the back seat to head flat out for the woods, I pulled over, stopped the engine and got out of the car into the pouring rain. The BIB came over to me and I immediately started to thank him for stopping me. I said I had been stupid to drive so recklessly and thanked him for bringing me to my senses. I went on to explain just how risky my actions were given the conditions... and that this incident would serve as a reminder never to drive like that again. A bit taken aback, the BiB just said that I might kill someone driving like that and warned me never to be caught driving like that again and that he was very annoyed at having had to stop me. Then he let me go. No producer. Nothing. I got back into my car soaked to the skin, and the occupants were as astonished as I was at having "got away with it." In truth, I hadn't got away with it at all. I'd just had what was probably the most valuable lesson of my driving career.



Neither would I. Nor such a healthy respect for the police.


Starfin

Hello IG

Thankx for you message

No offence meant. I'm sure you are way too thick skinned to take any of what I've said personally anyway. especially when you have to deal with really nasty unpleasant people on a daily basis. And there's no shortage of 'em!

And now that I've have calmed down a bit I will watch my language too OK

I've had a trawl through the site the last couple days and it is interesting......and terrifying ......to see where we are heading. There are some very very important issues here. Civil liberties, personal freedom etc. How far are we really prepared to go in pursuit of safer roads? There are people talking about black boxes and devices that will make GATSO cameras look like something out of the ark! We are facing a future where peoples driving habits will be under constant observation and fines dealt out accordingly! It is only right that people make a stand now for a fairer system before the situation deteriorates further and I am in no doubt whatsoever that it will!

It is a tragedy that anyone should die or be seriously injured on our roads but die they will. If there was a GATSO camera every 100 metres, it wouldn't stop people dying on our roads. The idea that you can challenge the psychology of the car driver by beating their wallets everytime they drive 5mph over the limit in a town centre is fatally flawed. It will just never happen. It is a completely different situation from drinking and driving. Stopping people from drinking and driving is compelling people to change their behaviour before they even get into their car (For the most part anyway) But challenging people to alter the way they drive is a totally different kettle of fish. I think human psychology is just too complicated for that too happen. There are too many other things going on in peoples heads for them to be continuously monitoring their speed, where the nearest school playground is, whether that lollipop is a warning of a speed camera a couple miles down the road, etc etc. People's lives are just too complicated to take all this stuff in. It's not 'wrong' for people to be thinking about where they are gonna buy their new sofa, where they are gonna take their wife/girlfriend for dinner, how the kids are doing at school, will I get that report finished for my boss on time?, will my wife wear that sexy underwear I bought for her? etc etc etc ad infinitum! Or any of the million other things that flash through a persons mind while they are driving. It is not 'wrong' for people to be thinking such things while they are driving. It is human nature. We are human beings for christ's sake!

It is my opinion that the cynical people who made the decision to massive increase the number of speed cameras on our roads are very familiar with human psychology! They know that you cannot challenge the way that people think . You cannot stop a human being....being a human being! It is without doubt, the most perfect way to extract money out of people. Guaranteed success every time! But to top it off and make it much much worse, mitigating circumstances are conveniently removed from the equation. Pay up or else! IT STINKS! This is why I firmly believe that the main driving force behind current policy is REVENUE and not road safety! It is inconceivable that intelligent knowledgeable people would use these methods in pursuit of road safety because it SIMPLY WILL NOT WORK! And recent statistics seem to bear that out

My immediate thoughs are, if you approached a stranger in the street 20 years ago and told them that in the future, their movements in their local town centre would be observed on CCTV cameras and their driving habits photographed by yellow robots at the roadside, and policemaen will hide in the bushes with rayguns waiting for unsuspecting motorists to overstep the mark by 2 or 3%, they would be quite rightfully horrified.

We really need to ask ourselves where we will be in another 20 years and we need to be asking ourselves this question RIGHT NOW

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Living in the UK is like eating a bile sandwich. It leaves a bitter taste in yer mouth

Oh IG

If I had the choice between getting flashed by a GATSO and a ticking off from you.....it would be the latter....... providing you aren't being paid commission for nicking people of course!

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Living in the UK is like eating a bile sandwich. It leaves a bitter taste in yer mouth