Safe Speed Forums

Why worry, it woundn't be your fault. 50 year old born-agains don't tend to ride without insurance.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I need my car for work and work rather it wasn't involved in an accident with a hellsgrandad or otherwise. Doesn't matter if it's not my fault, that's not much consolation really is it especially if the rider is hurt - even as a result of their own stupidity.

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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

Hear, hear!

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

This would mean i'd be driving at 10mph. This is the speed that you're so quick to brand me a "cager" for driving at so if a biker tailgates me and I slow down I'm both in the wrong, branded a cager and am holding everyone else up... Seems to me that my original point still stands and that bikers need more "education" as far as acknowledging other road users goes.

Car drivers are relentlessly hounded by the police for money or otherwise whereas I can sit in traffic behind a police car approaching a Truvelo (sic) camera while a biker can scream past, undertaking everyone safe in the knowledge that the camera won't get him cos he's got no front number plate, the policeman can't get him in his patrol car as he's stuck in traffic and the fact that he's just pulled an illegal move becomes irrelevant.... This feeling of being "above the law" only perpetuates the bad driving habits in the paragraph above.

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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

Having read through the thread (and as a car driver and motorcyclist) I'd agree with both sentiments!

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Let's leave it at that than........

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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

Ok, I accept that the comments you're replying to are "extreme" and I know you didn't personally brand me a cager (just an absent minded turn of phrase).

I don't drive at 10mph but was trying to highlight the fact that the biker tailgating me is only making me drive slower and therefore making the situation worse for himself. I don't think anyone on here shares my POV so I think it would be better to leave this "debate" now

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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

Just to ease your feelings of persecution..."Cager" = ANYBODY who drives a car regardless of their standard of driving.
As for falling in to the "hells grandad" class, while I am indeed a member of an MC, my kids are not old enough to reproduce just yet

I've been riding since I was 9 years old (I know I started late, but better late than never as they say) and I'm still here & in one piece 31 years later so whatever it is I do out there on 2 wheels, I must be doing it right.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

I'm not sure whether headbutting all the surrounding traffic into submission can really be called doing it right or not...

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Out of interest what sort of car do you drive?

It sounds to me that you are worried about the position at Stationary or near stationary traffic.

Often a biker may well make a move to filter but the particular wing mirror height of the car being passed prevents a straight forward manouver. In these situations it is normal to "sit there" and when the traffic to the right moves gain enough room to pass and proced with filtering the traffic.

As it is I actually can identify with the two rider types but here's a couple of others for you

The Advanced Motorcyclist - you never really notice him/her they move with stealth and progression that does not rely on you ever realising they are on the road

The London Courier - He will just remove the obstructing wing mirror thereby removing the problem for every one else

This is not meant to be a challenge or anything but have you ever ridden a motor cycle? Actually getting on one really opens your mind to the vulnerability but also the tremendous observation advantage a biker has. The reality is that a good biker knows more about what is happening on the road ahead, behind and to the sides than a good driver.

Riding a bike well is an activity that engages all 5 senses:

Sight - pretty obvious (used by both drivers and riders)
Sound - with modern car design a driver no longer hears most of what is going to help him
Touch - Feedback from the bikes suspension, and engine revs are a key bit of riding, using these alone I can know pretty accurately what speed I am doing without ever looking at the guages, in fact I never/rarely do hence I tend to run out of petrol
Speech - in town yelling at pedestrians is a great defence
Smell - this is the biggest difference, I can smell hazards - diesel, hay, clutch burn, oil burn, smoke all these are examples of stuff that their smell has actually given me early warning of hazards

Above all riding position and the ability to use the width of the carriageway to gain an observation advantage is totally misunderstood by non riders, my mum (64) was giving me ear ache over the way bikers "weave around" when they are following cars so I took her out on the bike with an intercom fitted and gave her a commentary ride, explaining how road position was adding to view as we rode, she could see over my shoulder. Now she understands

Actually here is an offer, I will gladly take any non rider on this site pillion so that they can understand the bikers point of view. I am in the south of England, we have helmets ranging from child size to medium adult available.

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Former Military Police Officer and accident investigator

I'm not worried about the position at stationary or near stationary traffic, motorways/dual carriageways coned off to single lanes or where there are two lanes with cones (effectively you're stuck in a lane with no scope for moving due to cones on either side) are where I find this happens. This means that the speed is often 40mph but in the real world this can still be approaching 60mph where there are no scameras about.

I am "worried" by the fact that in the situation above I have no room to move over for bikers and allow them to progress safely and by me not being able to let them by they take umbrage and sit closers and closer to the rear of my car when they should relax and sit back and just accept that they're stuck in traffic like everyone else - although more often than not the bikers in question get tired of doing this and instead cut through the cones (put there for their and the workforce's safety) and ride off "through" the roadworks.

I appreciate that not all bike riders are ****s but due to where I live and the roadworks I go through every day I experience idiots who drive stupidly (see my original post) and wanted to know what they thought they were acheiving and whether anyone could shed some light on it?

I have riden a bike and can understand the level of concentration needed and I hope that I apply the same level of concentration when driving a car (admittedly I don't have to worry so much about "feedback" from my car when driving in terms of what I'm going to do next but even so). I do not drive with the radio on (shock) and if it is going to be a boring drive I put it on the lowest setting so it's least distracting. I'm still not saying I'm a great driver.

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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

Just a thought, but if you're talking about a section of road that you have to drive redularly (part of your daily commute maybe) how can you be sure that its just not the same biker doing this over and over again?

How about altering your driving style to a more defensive one and taking up a position to the right of your lane? If there's genuinely no space for the biker to get through then let him know that you realise that and close the door on him. If he's prepared to ride through the cones then he'll do that anyway, but at least you don't need to worry about him being alongside you.

My advice, quite seriously, is to ignore it. Yes its excellent that you're aware of the fact that there is a bike behind you (so many cagers aren't) but why worry? Look further ahead, leave more room between you and the car infront (what FJSRiDER was trying to say earlier I believe) and allow for the fact that you're being tailgated by allowing yourself more time to brake. I guarentee that the biker won't ride into the back of you if you don't do anything sudden or unexpected, so give yourself enough room so you don't have to.

Like I said earlier, if the biker hits you he will come off worse. Unless he's travelling so slowly that he isn't likely to damage your car anyway, he WILL part company with the bike unless he's exceptionally skilled. Remember, slow speed collisions/crashes on bikes can to result in fairly serious injuries like broken bones because you land hard rather than sliding. Let him get on with riding like a muppet and igore it. The fact that you're devoting so much of your attention to him makes you more likely to have to brake in a hurry anyway.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I wouldn't believe even 10% of what you read about certain groups in the media Sixy, the amount of inaccuracies are beyond belief.

There was a documentary on BBC2 a few years ago about the Hells Angels, did you see it?

It featured mainly on the scene in America, but that was because no British chapter was stupid enough to accept the BBC's offer to talk about themselves on national TV.
In one scene, you had this so called "author" who was re-iterating (only what NCIS allowed him to say though) how it all started in the UK. The amount of bollocks in his information was truly amazing to say the least, but they conveniently missed out the important bits such as the Windsor president taking 5 bullets (and surviving) in the New Forest in 1979.

If you want a copy of the documentary then I'll send you one. Likewise if you want the real truth about how the HA came to be in this country, then I'll tell you using another medium rather than a public forum (after all, it suits a lot of folk just fine to have NCIS knowing only what we want them to know )

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Ok, I take your point sixy. I do notice a couple of them week in week out and you're right there's nothing I can do about it but if stop worrying about it, I'll stop caring about it and therefore just become another cager - and you wouldn't want that now would you?

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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

That's not what I said Mullet. I didn't say stop worrying about ALL bikers, just these twats who don't seem to realise that there's a time and a place.

Gixxer - TBH club or not, you're a biker to me and that's why I pull your leg. I don't care what colours you choose to wear. The other half knows a few ex HA here in Swindon and tell you the truth, they're some of the most decent and down to earth people I even met. (and useful if you get my drift ) I didn't catch the documentary specifically about the HA but I did see the Bulldog 2004 one which I thought was piss funny (asside from the fact that the other half is in it.)

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Hi Mullet &

I'm both a car driver and a biker and I can empathise with your sentiments. However, like the other bikers here, I ALWAYS acknowledge someone moving over for me to let me past, as I always acknowledge those who deliberately narrow the gap to prevent me passing.

I always try to ensure that the car driver I'm following can always see me (if they choose to look, but that's another matter!) in either their rear-view mirror or wing mirror, or both, and I try to maintain a steady relative position so the driver always knows where I am.

I think you have just unfortunately encountered the few rotten apples in every barrel type of biker.

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

I often think a mandatory biker period before sitting a car test would be a good idea.

Having ridden bikes for a while (and in my case, hit - at low speed luckily - by a bus) gives you a healthy respect for bikers.

I'd always try to give room to a biker where possible, even it's only a few inches movement to the left. They may be the London Courier type after all!

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.