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PACE CARS TO SLOW TRAFFIC

11:00 - 02 February 2006

Police are organising rolling roadblock schemes in the city in an attempt to force speeders to slow down. Motorists are being recruited to drive at the speed limit and display a sticker in their rear window warning people not to go any faster.

The Community Pace Car Scheme began in Yorkshire and Humberside as a local initiative after a spate of road accidents.

A similar scheme is now being organised by Avon and Somerset Police, Bath & North East Somerset Council and in Wiltshire.

Road safety charity Brake has received thousands of applications from drivers keen to take part.

But motoring organisations warned the scheme could cause accidents by encouraging tailgating and overtaking as motorists try to get past the pace car.

The Association for British Drivers said it would advise anyone thinking about using their car as a Pace Car to check with their insurance company that they were covered for such a role.

The group is also concerned that Pace Car drivers may risk aggression and abuse on the road.

Spokesman Mark McArthur-Christie said: "This scheme seems to be a minefield. What about training to make sure the Pace Car drivers set the right speed? What happens if someone following them crashes because of their actions?

"Safe driving is not about driving by numbers. It is far more complex than that.

"This sends the message that all drivers have to do to be safe is stick to the limit. Nothing could be further from the truth."


Readers respond:
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PACE CARS ARE TO SLOW DOWN TRAFFIC

11:00 - 01 February 2006

Monday, January 30: Police are organising rolling roadblock schemes in the city in an attempt to force speeders to slow down. Motorists are being recruited to drive at the speed limit and display a sticker in their rear window warning people not to go any faster.

As Victor Meldrew would say: "In the name of sanity!" We already have some of the slowest traffic and most congested roads in the UK.

My car dashboard informed me this week, for example, that travelling from Emersons Green to the city centre I averaged 9mph - and this at 7.15am.

I suspect that if people have volunteered, it is in the hope of being able to reach the speed limit.

Bristol's traffic management policies are disgraceful and tarnish the quality of life in an otherwise lovely city. Let's address that issue rather than having yet another half-baked gimmick.

Paul Foster, Bristol

What a ludicrous idea - more cars on the road, increased pollution and people with nothing better to do than hold up everyone else.

Nobody advocates reckless speed, but by the same token, if it is safe to make progress then who are these pace drivers to negate that? Will there be a required standard of driving or can anyone sign up to it?

If there is a minimum standard, who tests for this? If there isn't, potentially this scheme will be allowing people with substandard driving skills out on the road when otherwise they wouldn't be behind the wheel. Utter madness.

Alastair Jamesson, Bristol

As an advanced driver, I feel compelled to write a note on the shortfalls of this scheme.

Firstly, the volunteers are pace-making - explicitly excluded in most insurance policies - so are likely to be driving uninsured. Will the police be pursuing prosecutions?

Secondly, it is unlikely that their speedos will be calibrated for accurate measurement of speed, so will not be good pace indicators.

Thirdly, it is unlikely that they are qualified to make correct or accurate judgements about the safe speed in each situation, which comes with advanced training and practice.

Fourthly, they are likely to encourage and be the victims of frustrated, dangerous driving and road rage; putting one of these stickers on your car is a bit like having a note saying "kick me" pinned to your back. We need more traffic police on the roads, not wannabe cops.

David Brackin, Bristol

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Imagine the PACE car leading a snake of irate motorists onto a patch of black ice!
I can imagine the insurance case over THAT!!!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

The fact that this "great idea" has simultaneously been thought of in many independent constabulary areas seem to indicate central government (or ACPO) interference.

Anyone seen this policy from DfT? Who thought of it? Can we have their name?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

AH -at last someone has noticed -http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5691&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40 -

Posted 29/01

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

A bit of research on the scheme shows that the origins have NOTHING TO DO WITH ROAD SAFETY.

http://www.lesstraffic.com/Articles/Tra ... iritPC.htm

Claims to own the concept and its aims are to reduce traffic by causing obstrction. This is clearly an offence under current road traffic legislation.

Have a look at this site - http://www.peds.org/about.htm

Thats the one the schools in bristol got their ideas from - thats the American site

or if you want the Australian site


http://www.lesstraffic.com/Articles/Tra ... iritPC.htm , as DIY posted.

Both look as full of nuts as a fruitcake

Trouble is they're brainwashing kids .(to brainwask /nag parents)

Look at this one -http://www.luckwell.bristol.sch.uk/projects/STP7paceSville.html

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

That page has got to be one of the biggest loads of crap I have ever read.

Let's start here:



What has that possibly got to do with driving? Are they suggesting I should stop by some children playing, wind down my window, and invite them over for a chat? I don't think that would go down very well.



WTF? Next time I'm walking on the pavement and a faster person wants to pass, I will hold my arms outsretched and dodge side to side to block them. Then I will explain how it's for their own good, to 'reduce their stress'.



Well, lucky they avoided that pitfall.



No it won't! When cars aren't being used, they will still be parked. And how does causing congestion by making people spend longer on the road each journey reduce traffic volume?

Have been thinking about this from a different perspective, how about contacting the insurance companies for thier view on this, perhaps a press release or a letter along the the lines of I am thinking of joining the pace car scheme will this affcet my insurance given the exemption clauses and seeing what comes back???

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

Similar tack - rather than individual approaches to insurance companies - with differing arguements - a press release by Paul contrasting the insurance angle on use for pace making , asking if this is a cynical approach by the authorities and in light of the danger caused by these pace cars ,both to other road users and to the pace cars and drivers will the Insurers either condemn this or attach higher premiums to persons using their cars in this fashion. The idea of making some extra cash and extra risk posed to/by these cars might look like a good idea to the insurers.Like fighting profiteering with profiteering.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

As posted on the 'Doncaster Madness' thread, driving a 'Pace Car' is 'Pace Making', an activity specifically excluded by all insurance policies. Pace making is the act of driving at a speed for others to follow or attempt to follow. This is exactly what they are doing and they are intending to display a sticker confirming that they are 'Pace Making' and thus, unless they have a policy amendment, they are not insured.
Report them to the Police if you see one on the road 'Making a Pace' as an uninsured driver.
By the way, my insurance broker supports this view.

Has anyone actually tried contacting their insurer, describing the planned activity, and asked if they would be covered?

I did ask my broker and he feels that the actual wording of the standard policy excludes this activity as it has used the word 'PACE' which implies Pace Making - a specific exclusion on all policies.
It's the wording of the insurance contract which the insurers rely on in the event of a claim and they will invalidate any claim if they can.
Remember, it's the stated legal responsibility of the insured to inform the insurers of any change of risk or requirement for a change to the policy cover. To decide to use your car as a 'Pace Car', i.e. a mobile road block to prevent other drivers from making progress, is a change in risk.
It may or may not attract a higher premium, that's an underwriting decision, but to fail to inform the insurer of this change of use/change of possible risk, means the the policy will be invalid whilst the vehicle is being used outside the scope of permitted uses.
The sticker in the rear window just confirms that the use has changed from just 'Social, Domestic & Pleasure' to 'Pace Making'.
If one of these gets in your way, take the number and report it for 'being driven whilst uninsured'. The Old Bill will have to investigate it and one might think that the Police are not particularly enamoured with the scheme anyway. They always tell people not to take the law into their own hands, which is just what this is doing. How long before one of the 'Pace Cars' holds up a police car at 24 mph in a 30 limit (by driving at an indicated 27 mph on their uncalibrated speedo) and gets reported for 'causing an obstruction' or 'driving without d c & a and consideration for other road users'.

Question?

If I intend to break a speed limit, should I inform my insurer first to make sure I'm covered for this eventuality?

the difference is that breaking a speed limit does not invalidate your insurance, whereas pace making does and is a written exclusion on the vats majority of policies.

if you're not sure/convinced, check your own.

Now after pacemaking being a banned item on insurance - if i try to pass one of these ,within the speed limit and they speed up are they racing - another banned item, or just obstructing?

What would be interesting to see is the OFFICIAL Police response to this from the CC of the forces involved, especially as this campaign is encouraging drivers to drive in a manner which potentially negates and invalidates their insurance, hence turning them into law breakers , with official sanction, and Doncaster and Bristol LA becoming liable to aiding and abbetting charges?

Of course there is the other angle -are the kids at the Bristol schools being encouraged or led ??

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I daren't ask them, dare you?

If third party insurance was void if the insured party could be shown to have broken some form of road traffic law then it would be pretty useless, as arguably every accident involves "careless driving".

However, some policies do not cover you for own damage if you are found guilty of a serious offence such as dangerous or drink-driving. Never speeding, though. Unless this is shown as a specific policy exclusion it does not apply - but I'm sure any insurer would be happy to clarify this if asked.

Pace making is a category of use, in the same way as commercial travelling, and so something entirely different.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I'm just thinking about the irony of the situation - declaring to your insurance company that you are not going to break the law by speeding could invalidate your insurance, declaring to them that you are going to break the law by speeding wouldn't.

I suspect the issue with the insurance company is that acting as a pace car imposes a higher risk, not connected with speed.
Insurance companies deal in risk assessment. They do preclude racing, but not speeding (5-7% accident causation according to Avon & Somerset police).

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Used to be laws about holding up traffic - don't see them being used much these days - isn't there something about pulling over to let a q past.
But hey - HC ADVISES -
144: Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass


and what do the pace idiots want to happen - oh yes stop cars getting past - nt what the HC says

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on