Safe Speed Forums

Turning right into the farm off the road I sometimes get overtaken. There is a sign warning sign saying farm traffic before the enterance. This doesn't worry me, I watch them in my large, clean mirrors as I carry on turning, sometimes I even point at my flashing and also clean indicators. If they hit me, tough, it will hurt.

However, they also do it to me when I am on my scooter. This I'm less happy with. so any suggestions? I move across in good time and I know my lights work. Would you believe me if I said motorcyclists do this to me? A Bandit and an FZR1000. Not just car drivers. Do I take their number and report them? Do I ask the council to paint a solid white line?

Not sure how much longer I'm going to keep getting away with it....

You're turning right and people overtake you on the RIGHT? That sounds crazy!

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

Very odd. I think I've only been overtaken while planning a right turn about twice in over 30 years.

I have to wonder if something that you're doing contributes. If it isn't something you're doing then there must be something odd about the road layout that confuses folk. If there is something about the road, then maybe there's something more you can do to compensate.

Fortunately it's very easy indeed for you to prevent the accident - if another vehicle looks like it might overtake, then wait. And give youself a big pat on the back for being personally responsible for averting disatster.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I really don't see how this situation can arise, though - if you're turning right, and the other side of the road is clear, you don't need to stop, you can just slow down and turn. If you've come to a standstill and someone is coming up to overtake, then you've probably come to a standstill because there is oncoming traffic, so how can they overtake?

Unless they're following too closely, and as soon as you slow down they pull out and overtake. But I would have thought this extremely unlikely if you are signalling right...

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

Could be a road layout issue. I'm assuming Adam is talking about being in a tractor (apart from the scooter obviously), so maybe he's got someone following him through a bend which leads on to a straight section on which is the turning on the right he wants. So matey behind sees the straight coming and prepares to overtake, and either misses the indicators coming on or (and I'm strectching here )misinterprets them to mean "you can overtake me now" . If it's anything like that I can only think about signalling earlier so they know a right turn is imminent before the end of the bend, or if the road allowed it maybe position the vehicle more to the right to discourage an overtake and reinforce the signals. 'Course, if the road layout is nothing like that and it just happens to be a case of the nutters it might not help.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

It's only happened to me once in 20 years and that's the only time I have ever seen it happen. Have heard it happens to scooter riders more often but I don't know how much of this is self inflicted.

Don't suppose you could post some pics of the road layout?

I was under the impression that when somebody turns right across an overtaking vehicle then the turner is at fault. Crazy I know, but the reasoning is that the person turning is performing an manuevre which crosses the path of the other vehicle.

Gareth

I think they are both 'performing a manoeuvre' which gives equal responsibility. I agree that turning traffic usually has lower priority than traffic on a more major road, but Highway Code 143 tends to shift the blame the other way.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Not really that crazy I'd say.

If you knowingly turn right into the path of an overtaking vehicle your hardly blameless. Alternatively, if you failed to see the overtaking vehicle then your every bit as lacking in attention as he is. In any case you clearly have an opportunity to avoid an accident and therefore a duty to do so.

And notwithstanding all of the above, what if your rear indicator isn't working, or has become obscured by something on the back of your vehicle, or can't be seen due to bright sunshine etc. Still the overtaker's fault?

Obviously a good driver won't overtake where there is a possibility of the vehicle in front turning, and the combination of tractor and field gate should ring particularly loud alarm bells. But not everyone is a good driver...

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If turning from a large vehicle, perhaps he is not over in the right-most part of the lane, because he needs the extra space to make the turn (unusual in right-turning, more common in left-turning).

Is he giving enough room for drivers to pass on the left? Or slowing down long before the junction without leaving any room to pass?

Sounds like something funny is going on here.

But.

They should not be overtaking opposite a junction anyway. OK, not illegal but certainly bad practice.

Not so sure about the problem when driving a tractor, but from a purely personal point of view, scooter / bike indicators ain't great at the best of times. Particularly in bright sunshine it can be very easy to miss a bike / scooter signal. For your own safety try reinforcing with an arm signal. (I know its not the easiest of things to do, but try it)

I've been riding for a while now, and since passing my test I've never riden a bike with indicators fitted, so I HAVE to use arm signals. There are times when its a pain - like turning right at a roundabout and the approaching traffic can't see as you signal on approach - but in general I find that an arm signal is far more visible and more obvious than an indicator.

There's no excuse for bikes pulling that kind of meneouvre on you though - I'd put that down to shear lack of any kind of respect or sence of self preservation. I don't suppose they had irridium visors did they?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I will illaberate (sp??).

The road is a faily busy b road. The very last sign is red triangel with a picture of a tractor and the words Farm Traffic. There is a straight pice of road then it bares to the right, but you can't see throught the corner. After the corner ther is enough straight to do a quick overtake. The end od the corner is many be 50 yards from the farm enterance. The road goes east west and this is normally in the monring on the way in so any bs about I can't see you lights is out, cos the sun is on my back. ALL the lights work on our machines and they are dead easy to see.

When I'm on my tractor I just think, go on make my day. The sprayer guy also reports people overtaking him as he turns into the yard. You don't need to hit a sprayer. They smell and are full of chemicals that people with sandles and beards complain about. The only way I've found to stop them on me tractor is to have the right wheels over the centre line and some times you still get the odd clown.

Blocking the road on a decent size tractor is faily easy, less so on a C90.

I get over before the corner opens up and indicate and am right on the center line as I approach the turning, but they still nip past. In the last month I've had a disco a fiesta and a bandit do this to me on my bike.
Grrr.

I brought this up on my first advanced course and the BIB said keep turning (on tractor) and if they hit you we'll throw the book at them...

I suspect this happens more than you might think. I've often seen people half try to do it in urban areas when in their impatience they haven't noticed a slowing vehicle is indicating. If they are the third vehicle in the line they might not see the indicator.

Many years ago someone sideswiped my father's car when he was turning right off a main road near Chester.

Some drivers of course indicate late or not at all, and it can be difficult to tell what a numpty-ish driver actually plans to do when slowing down (not that this excuses it).

I've even had someone try to do it to me in a supermarket car park when to my mind it was bleeding obvious that I was about to turn into a space on my right. So I tend to signal now

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Funnily enough I was behind a tractor turning right today. It was going slowly (as they always do - compared to cars anyway), so I was looking to overtake it (Before I realised it was turning right, doh!).

Anyway, I thought about this, after reading your post earlier, and my thoughts that might shed some light on this are:
Drivers expect to overtake tractors, as they often travel at 20 - 30 mph on NSL roads.
The same is probably true for scooters!

The tractor I was behind had particularly poor indicators and brake lights - they were not at eye level (They were much higher up than either an HGV or car), and the bulbs were so dim, and it was towing a trailer without lights, so it was barely perceptible that they were on. I knew by the fact that it was slowing down rather than anything else, and because I always expect them to turn off (Most tractors only tend to do short journeys).

A scooter I would have thought more obvious, as they would usually take up a position in the middle of the road before turning right.

So I would say:
Make sure your indicators and brake lights are clear and in good working order on both tractor and scooter. Trailers should have repeater lights (Not sure if this is even a legal requirement?)
If riding the scooter, take up a position to the right early on, and perhaps using hand signals in addition to the indicator may help.

By the way, I've seen more than one accident like this, but it's always been a car turning right in heavy traffic, with a motorbike overtaking. The car hasn't always been right at the junction either, but thought it would be a good idea to drive for a few yards on the other side of the road. Nearly happened to me on a pushbike as well once - a full 50 yards from the junction.

I've seen tractor drivers round here use hand signals, sticking their arm out well in advance, basically as soon as they exit the bend before they're going to turn off, because they know people will be looking to overtake on the straight.

Yes, you shouldn't overtake at a junction, but the places that tractors often turn into aren't places that most drivers would recognise as a junction, it will often just be a closed wooden gate at the side of a field, the tractor is going to stop on the grass then open the gate, for example.

The fact that they have just driven past a sign that says Farm Traffic and you can see the farm from the road is of some concern. As is the fact that the lights on the trailer work (a light flashes in the cab to tell me they work) and they are at eye level to the car driver and are bright. The tractor, trailer and potato harvest (i'll come back to that one) are Y2K modles so are up to date on regs. The spud harvester is 12ft wide and runs over the white line and has clearly visable lights AND you can see the tractor lights over it and the STILL come past me.

It's hard to drive forward and lean out of the back window to make a hand signal. The cab is big, I am small and the bloody thing has some f*****g lights and if they can't see those they won't see my arms. We have had cars in the gate way before now and then it the fence. Why? They kinda get scooped up in the tractor and figure the fence is a softer option.

I get over in plenty of time on my bike and the fact that my right indicator is flashing and that my toes are over the center line, you would think, might give my intentions away

hmmm.. is this seasonal?
or exclusively in the morning then?

if the sun is strongly on your back perhaps it is reflecting off all your lights and masking them that way...

Can guarantee you'd attract our attention if copped doing this..



Insurance company likely to apportion blame in case like this. More like to be in marginal favour of overtakee but much would depnde on accident reports.

even if



Would depend on the reports and any photos of area.



COAST

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Seriously, the fault would be that of the overtakee? The overtakee has to see the overtaker in the mirror, where as the overtaker is going to be seeing the overtakee through the whole of the manoeuver (someone overtaking in this situation doesn't check their mirrors before they overtake ), AND has time to sound their horn to alert the overtakee.

That said, overtakee is almost certainly capable of stopping an accident through careful observation, as Adam has been doing so far - but I don't have much sympathy with someone hitting it.