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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 15:27 
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(A long time lurker and unsigned_forms group poster here)

Anyway, I started a thread elsewhere about a complete sham of a safety inspection at the roadside today, but I'd like some input from here.

Scenario is A31/A272 junction big police presence pulling in bikers for a safety inspection.

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I got pulled in by Hampshires finest this afternoon. When asked what I'd been stopped for I was told they were stopping all bikers (as one whizzed past behind) and they were entitled to under the RTA. He then went on to explain that they were addressing the high number of bikers KSI'd in the county. Fair enough I though, after all its got to be better than a speed trap, so I decided to go along with it and not be a pain in the arse.

First check was my tax disk, he wanted me to remove it from the holder. I told him I needed an allen key and there was no point anyway, as it was a photocopy. He started on about it being an offence with a £40 fine, and when I explained that I only leave a copy on the bike due to theft in the past and nothing being done about it, this seemed to only get his back up.

Next on his list was the E-marks on my exhaust, my reg plate and he wanted to see my licence (all legit). He then has a go for wearing a dark visor on what must have been the sunniest day of the year. He radios my details through, gets the ok, and hands me a flyer for the new version of Bikesafe saying I'm free to go.

I don't think they could have offended me much further really. I mean, how many of the KSI in Hampshire were due to an out of date tax disk, small plate or loud can. None I bet. A complete shower of a 'safety' inspection, didn't once look at my tyres, brakes, lights etc... You know, the things that really matter, but then this grunt didn't care (probably just counting the overtime). He didn't even mention speeding (which if you believe the figures count for 1/3 of all accidents)

I'm seriously considering writing in to complain about this farce, considering I'm paying for this (a glorified admin exercise aimed at bikers).


Can anyone spot the safety points addressed? (Ignore the fact that all the issues covered have problems elsewhere - tax (revenue) - loud exhausts (social nuisance))

So do you think I left a safer rider?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 15:42 
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No, I think you left as an annoyed biker, and quite rightly so.
Just one point on your tax disc, is there any way you could carry the original, for instance, in your wallet, albeit, I totally agree with the photocopy, illegal though it may be.
I got stopped on a VOSA check a few weeks back, polite, friendly and plenty of free advice, maybe it should be VOSA doing these checks, they wouldn't miss the odd headlight missing.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 15:59 
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Dratsabasti wrote:
No, I think you left as an annoyed biker, and quite rightly so.
Just one point on your tax disc, is there any way you could carry the original, for instance, in your wallet, albeit, I totally agree with the photocopy, illegal though it may be.
I got stopped on a VOSA check a few weeks back, polite, friendly and plenty of free advice, maybe it should be VOSA doing these checks, they wouldn't miss the odd headlight missing.


I'm planning on keeping the original under the rear seat - trouble is if they really want to get anal about it - I'm still technically 'not displaying' a valid disk. However I'm really struggling to connect out of date tax disks with a rise in KSI figures for Hampshire :?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 16:04 
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At loss over this one! Cos seems a bit of a nonsense from way you describe it! :roll: Sure this is unbiased account? :wink:

If it had been me, I would have checked the documents, commented on the tax disc copy :roll:, and given polite lecture on legal aspects and given some tips as to maintaining security, and reporting stolen discs to us! But have used utmost discretion in the past when confronted with this - though seem to have less tax discs thefts reported these days - so he could have thought you were pulling a fast one! :wink:
Did he use that tone of voice - the one we all love to use? :wink:


But if the pull was pure safety issues (and have done those in the past and er - upset folks :lol:), would have prowled around inspecting your brakes, lights, etc, and then asked some questions about your attitude to general safety awareness, pointing out all the highlights of "Bikesafe", encouraging you to re-read both this and the HC!

Same kind of initiative going on up in North East as well and over in Cumbria as well - so I believe!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 16:26 
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In Gear wrote:
At loss over this one! Cos seems a bit of a nonsense from way you describe it! :roll: Sure this is unbiased account? :wink:


Pretty much verbatim, no plesantries exchanged and he went through a printed list of checks to make on the bike.

In Gear wrote:
But if the pull was pure safety issues (and have done those in the past and er - upset folks :lol:), would have prowled around inspecting your brakes, lights, etc, and then asked some questions about your attitude to general safety awareness, pointing out all the highlights of "Bikesafe", encouraging you to re-read both this and the HC!


I was expecting something like what you describe above, and I take pride in the condition of my bike (both mechanical and cosmetic) so had no issues - although I'd rather been riding than sitting in a lay-by. What gets me is that it was an admin exercise targetting bikers dressed up as a safety inspection. Net result is that they have further alienated thenselves from my friends and I by feeding a load of B.S.

Any ideas who I'd write to about this - the Chief Const?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 16:39 
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Try the Super in charge of trafpol in first instance.

I would thank them for taking the trouble to make you a "safer" biker, :roll: , and then ask them to clarify one or two points for you as per your post! Ask them about bike security as well - give good impression of yourself as proud and careful owner of ultimate riding machine! :wink:

Keep it as polite as poss - after all - you want an "informed" response! :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 22:00 
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In Gear wrote:
If it had been me, I would have checked the documents, commented on the tax disc copy :roll:, and given polite lecture on legal aspects and given some tips as to maintaining security, and reporting stolen discs to us!


I could be wrong here but I think Chill might also be a VD'er :wink: as I recall seeing this posted there too. I was also recently pulled in a BIKE ONLY safety inspection. Same thing, though I got a rectification notice as I have a race can on the bike [Hardened criminal that's me]. I too got the where is your tax disc "In my wallet so it doesn't get nicked" was my reply. I was also able to produce the duplicate tax disc I had to buy when a previous one was nicked!


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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2004 23:20 
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It worries me where this whole police-public relationship is going. Considering that the UK is the only country in the world where the police force was mandated by the public and not imposed by government, it seems such a shame to see it going to pot like this.

I was in my local pub this evening, and overheard a guy talking about how he witnessed a mugging, but he certainly wasn't going to contact the police with any info because he's furious over being caught by a camera van.

How far can things go before lasting damage is done?


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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2004 23:27 
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orange wrote:
How far can things go before lasting damage is done?


A huge amount of "lasting damage" has been done already. I don't know if it's irrepairable yet. It probably is. Even if it isn't irrepairable, it will take many many years to put this little lot right.

What's that they say? "Trust has to be earned"? And now the Police have to start all over again earning trust in many quarters.

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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2004 11:27 
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MAC wrote:
I could be wrong here but I think Chill might also be a VD'er :wink:

Maybe I am!

Anyway, I've trotted off a letter last week asking why they are exclusively targetting bikes for, esentially, admin offences when they make up only 1% of the traffic in the county.

I also asked was this unimaginative practice their idea of a good way to reduce Hampshire's KSI figures.

I hold no great hopes for an incisive reply.


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 Post subject: Hi folks...
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2004 13:14 
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What concerns me here is not really whether the cop had the right to pull you and get all legal with you on a pretext - even although this can be irritating at times - it is when you start to wonder just how much of our council taxes and government subsidies are being spent on these kinds of subject as opposed to other law-enforcement subjects.

Having been the neighbourhood watch organiser in my area for some time I think that I see where the money is being spent a bit better than some of the public do. With this in mind I see Chief Constables targetting this and targetting that so that figures improve in the targetted areas to the detriment of the non-targetted areas.

While there is a dedicated "traffic" force and a dedicated "other crimes" force I still feel that pro-rata, more money seems to be spent on the controlling of traffic and the attached "crimes" than is spent on what I would call REAL crimes.

If this is my perception of the way things are done is it the perception of the rest of the road-using public that this is how our money is spent ?

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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2004 16:54 
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Another smash on the A272 yesterday (the Meon Hut-Peterfield stretch, about 2 mins from the crossroads) - I was passing as they were dragging a Golf onto a recovery vehicle with a very mangled bike on the road. Looks like the driver and rider had long been whisked off to hospital though.

The Golf was damaged on the passenger's side wing with little damage to the front, and the accident was on a straight section of road so it's a bit of a mystery how it could have happened.

Gareth


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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2004 20:31 
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g_attrill wrote:
Another smash on the A272 yesterday ... it's a bit of a mystery how it could have happened.


Out of date tax disk probably. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2004 01:22 
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i think the police really need to start thinking about there campaigns... i mean to be stopping people and making them feel criminals over an exhaust, etc just creates another angry road user on what can sometimes be in high powered vehicles...

i wonder how many accidents will be caused by an angry road user that had earlier been stopped by an officer with a grudge against bikers, etc... which at the start of the journey was just going about his business and enjoying his ride?

I agree with "safety checks" providing they are in aid of safety, but to try, in my opinion, bully bikers (and even cars) off the road is just stupid and patetic and it will all backfire one day... but by then it'll be too late!

on the subject of orange's post regarding a guy witnessing a mugging though... i'd have to agree with the guy not going to the police, not just because of all the scamera steath taxing but also to protect myself because c'mon, if you were attacked as a result of giving evidence against someone, is the law really going to protect you?

Seems the law is one sided against the innocent :-(


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 20:54 
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A little off topic, but in an earlier post I mentioned a little idiot on a moped playing 'chicken' with a car, the police initially were not going to prosecute, when it did eventually happen he was fined a total of £40. A fortnight earlier I witnessed an OAP being assualted, I phoned the police then waded in. I'm ex forces and have done a little bit of to use the forces term 'prisoner handling' it's all very basic stuff using pressure points to retsrain someone - non injuring or damaging just bloody painfull if you try and get away !!

Police arrive and I'm told that I could be charged with assault !!

I now view the police, certainly in Essex with a great deal of suspicion, obviously there are some bloody good coppers out there but the actions of the senior officers (Brunstrom being a good example) and some very officious 'sprogs' is marring that.

How this trashing of the public / police relationship is helping road safety or crime reduction in general is beyond me.

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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2004 12:04 
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I have to say that any rider who chooses to ride with a race can or a small plate is doing absolutely nothing positive for the PR of motorcycling.

Anyone who is anti bike always complains about noise - with approx. 30% of bikes fitted with illegal zorsts, I can see why.

The dark visor issue is totally seperate and a genuine issue, that no decent plod is interested in. Particularly since many of their own riders wear dark visors.


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