Safe Speed Forums

Interesting outcome about seizures,
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2011/749.html

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nigel_bytes

Very interesting. The crux of the judgement is that the Police Officer erroneously believed that the word of an anonymous spokesman for the insurance company overroad the plainly stated wording on the certificate.

Another example of the supremacy of rule by "wise men"

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Been there.
Done that.
I now always carry a certificate of insurance, plus a letter from my MP stating the actions that police HAVE to carry-out PRIOR to vehicle seizure.
I check the MID for the vehicle I am driving (alterations to the insurance seem to lead to excessive refresh time on the database)
I also refuse to pay any attention to police not in uniform, preferably also in a marked police vehicle.
Note: The vehicle cannot be seized by a police officer not in uniform.
This has led to many altercations, including some four police vehicles around me at 0130z one night....but that's what they get for having plain cars and plain-clothed police....I could care less about their "warrant cards" since you can print similar off the web...
No uniformed ?
F**k off.
Note ALL of this counties traffic police are taser-equipped now...

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Now that continuous insurance is law the case would have been lost, because the VEHICLE was not insured itself......
Just saying....

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Even now vehicles do not have to be insured. The law requires that some person is insured to drive the vehicle. An important distinction.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

But there has to be a specific insurance policy relating to the use of that vehicle. The fact that I have a "driving other vehicles" clause on my insurance policy doesn't mean that every single uninsured vehicle in the country is suddenly magically insured.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

The last time i was stopped i was given a hort1 producer (no mot ...well it was but database not updated)
I simply produced insurance cert and mot cert. both were accepted.
Strange how they didnt call insurance co to see if policy was valid (it was)

Also interesting how appeal court made no referance to cancelled policies so it would appear the ins cert is all that is required.

Jomu you say,
I now always carry a certificate of insurance, plus a letter from my MP stating the actions that police HAVE to carry-out PRIOR to vehicle seizure.

those actions being ?

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nigel_bytes

For a start it depends upon what they intend to seize it for.
For no road tax they can seize it immediately.
For no insurance showing on the MID they cannot....they have to satisfy themselves there is a reasonable certainty that the vehicle is not insured. If you produce an insurance certificate they can then check that by telephoning the insurer directly. Either way, the MID cannot be relied upon to be accurate...if the vehicle IS on the database then it MAY be insured, or it may not....it takes the same time to remove as it does to enter...and that can be up to seven days....usually it takes longer if you have altered an existing policy.
Insist on uniformed police in marked police car....none of this "I'm a police officer here is my id"....where is a legal police id printed so people know what it looks like ?
As far as know the vehicle cannot be seized for no current MOT, although it may be the subject of a prohibition notice if it is visibly unroadworthy.
A vehicle can be seized if driven dangerously or inconsiderately.....or is being used in an antisocial manner (!)
I check my vehicles on the ASKMID system......last insurance change took 9 hours to show.....valid on midnight and shown on the MID just after office start time...I'm afraid that is just not good enough. The policy was paid for several days previous to that date/time.....given the enthusiasm that police show for seizure (part of the cost of same is paid to them....and doubtless the "secure" storage contractor has a nice little payback scam going....as well as nicking anything not bolted down)
Unfortunately modern technology makes it easy to print your own certificate.....and most on-line insurers provide them...how people are supposed to comply with the law and return the insurance certificate when it is their paper and ink is another thing...

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

7.5 If the police ask for evidence of insurance, the regulations will allow the insured
to show a certificate accessed via a website, or to show the email attachment if that was
how the certificate was sent to him, or to produce a legible printed copy of the certificate.
The officer must of course be satisfied (as with production of paper certificates) that he is
indeed seeing the insured’s certificate if he is shown it on the web or as an email
attachment.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010 ... 117_en.pdf

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nigel_bytes