Safe Speed Forums

Anyone who finds a way round it would only want to do that to break the speed limit. It stands, therefore, that anyone who breaks the limit has found a way round it. So anybody going over 70 (e.g. on the m-way) has been mucking with their limiter. They’d stand out like sore thumbs.

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Given the number of drivers who currently feel that 70 is a limit not worthy of respect under normal conditions, do you honestly think that the majority of them would then not seek out their local limiter recalibration service if such devices became mandatory?

You'd be lucky to reach 70 under normal, highly congested stop/start conditions! What limit would be "worthy of respect"?

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Not really....doing 70 in a 30 doesn't mean that the limiter has been defeated.


Never heard of electro-mechanical failure?

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

If 'you're lucky to reach 70', why do we need a limit at all?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

What does this have to do with the limiter argument? You've been taking lessons from JJ and friends on how to try and avoid answering the question by going off on a tangent, haven't you

When I talk about "normal" conditions, the last thing I mean is the highly abnormal conditions you get at times of high traffic levels. At least in my neck of the woods (Thames Valley, not exactly a quiet, underpopulated part of the UK...) for the majority of the day the motorways (M25, M4 and M40) are quiet enough such that there are no volume of traffic restrictions on what speeds are attainable, and where the only vehicles doing less than 70 are those which are already limited in one way or another (HGVs, coaches etc.)

And going over 70 on an m-way is a good way to bring the law down on you.

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What limit would be 'worthy' of respect?

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Do you want to raise or remove the limit?

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No. I'll find a way around it in order to stay alive a bit longer.

Cheers
Peter

No. But you didn't answer my question.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

A limit which is the true maximum speed it is safe to drive at in good clear conditions with no other traffic about, as is required by rule 104 of the Highway Code. It is not acceptable to order drivers to follow the Highway Code, if the people setting the limits in the first place ignore it.

I can see where you would be going with this reasoning Pete, but I reckon most drivers would have to adapt to driving safely with this severe handicap to their vehicle.
Overtakes at anything near the limit would be nigh on impossible for starters.

It all depends on the conditions as to whether the law will show an interest in you at anything over 70. I've been past more than enough M-Way patrols while in the 80-85 region and they have never bothered with me, although I have no doubt that if I attempted the same in rush hour traffic around the Heathrow section of the M25 then my arse would be grass and they would be the lawnmower.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

My question is a simple one - you have reasons for having a limit but you want to know mine, which is fair enough.

There are different reasons for having a limit on different roads. In the 20 zones (and to lesser extents 30 and 40 zones etc.), the balance for me is against the 'speedy/greedy' anti-social elements that are a danger to pedestrians and children in constricted town streets. I care less about drivers that drive into other drivers in the 20/30/40 zones, although when you get to 40, a head-on crash between two cars is quite devastating.

On faster roads, e.g. the m-way etc., the reason for the limit is mostly for the 'reason that dare not speak it's name', i.e. for the effect it has on maintaining speed similarities, i.e. user expectations. I am less concerned about accidents between vehicles at similar speeds going in similar directions than I am in accidents between vehicles that are at very different speeds going in different directions, if you see my point. Lane changes and tailgating coupled with high speed in flows of slower moving traffic are a BAD idea. Nicely coordinated flows with less lane changes with traffic at good distances at similar speeds in a good goal. I don’t much care if the limit is 70 or 80 – whatever it is I stick under it, give a take a bit.

Obviously, in all areas, the limit gives young and inexperienced drivers an absolute limit, that they can use wisely by driving below, and it gives older, experienced and wise drivers a line above which they should not go in order not to too badly influence less able drivers. Of course, there are also noise, pollution, congestion and a plethora of other issues to consider, so it is a big question of yours.

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It's not just overtakes.
Imagine the hell on earth of three motorway lanes full of vehicles all doing exactly 70mph (well, two - lane 1 will probably be full of HGVs), with nobody willing, or able, to give an inch.
You could end up going around the M25 three times before you manage to get over into lane 1 in time for your exit - unless you're suicidal.

Cheers
Peter

Fortunately, some traffic cops still live/ drive / think. As per items on this forum , they do what the scamerati cant do - use discretion - my mind dwells on an item where a BIB was interested in a tail light.

Gixxer - speed limiting on modern cars - as you say my friend - the car is programmed by man, not man by the car.

Pete 317 - what hapens when the promise of more lanes comes about - do we start getting into LANE 1 ,5 miles before exit -but think on , this could give the truckers a way of protesting - fill Lane 1 - and rotate round the M25.Result lanes 1 - n full of cars with empty tanks.

So if you set a limit for inexperienced drivers to drive BELOW, then the inference is they are not able to judge, and will drive AT the limit anyhow, as being inexperienced, they will see the maximum limit for what it is.
If you set the limit LOWER than the safe level in order to force the inexperienced driver to keep from injuring himself or others, then the experienced driver might as well remain a complete twat and stay inexperienced, and simply let himself be guided by the speed limit signs.

Now we have a little lane near us called Hollins Lane.
(See it here http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=350060&y=495295&z=1&sv=350250,495250&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf)
It's narrow, has mature trees planted along it's length whose roots encroach on to the road margins, and it's downhill.
After a couple of hundred yards, there is a double bend, the second part with no sight of the road ahead, with a few hundred yards of twisting road, past a house which has lane marking tape attached to it's down spout it's that close to the road, and finally a gated level crossing, with a double bend, ending at a T junction, with a School on the corner.
The posted limit until the level crossing is 60 mph. If your inexperienced driver is let loose on this road, they will be through the wall on the very first bend. In fact this has rarely happened (if at all). Skid marks on the straight bit of road show there have been near misses - possibly as a result of meeting oncoming cars.
The stretch after the hairpin bend, past the house to the 30mph limit just before the level crossing is best attempted at 25 - 30 MAXIMUM. Once over the crossing, 15 - 20 mph is more than desirable.
Again, most drivers manage this without mishap. At NO point is a 60 mph limit appropriate. Drivers are expected to manage and moderate their speeds according to the conditions at ANY ability range - otherwise they or somebody involved with them will die.

Now if drivers of all abilities manage to negotiate this road by judging the appropriate speed to negotiate ALL hazards, why do you have such difficulty with accepting that drivers are capable of driving safely, and appropriately slightly ABOVE posted limits ESPECIALLY where limits have been reduced recently just prior to placing cameras, where NO ACCIDENTS have occured which involved any cause other than drivers having heart attacks at the wheel, or foreign drivers clipping the kerb, and bouncing out into oncoming traffic at low speeds?

IMHO Speed limits are like a Bible - you need to be able to quote it/them, to know what the spirit behind it/them is, and know when they are a useful guide.

YOUR approach makes them more like a DICTIONARY - you need to stop and look them up when you encounter one, and ensure you spell it right everytime. Occasionally dictionaries are revised in the light of common usage - and that is what should happen to speed limits when it is entirely appropriate!!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Not if their instructors have done their job properly, they won’t.



Can you set a limit less than the safe level?



Are you aware that the 60 mph limit is the highest that is legal, and that you should go slower than that?



I have no difficulty with that, man. Slightly above the posted limits only gives a slightly higher risk. That is why there is only a very small penalty. A lot of drivers are at it, though.



That is confused. The limits are absolute top limits, NOT guides. I can take a chance if I want, but I’ll take it on the chin if I get caught chancing it. You might catch me speeding, but you’ll never catch me whining and crying about it like a baby.

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Actually, you can - and they do. Don't ask me to explain this - going from past experience you wouldn't understand if I tried.




:whoosh! right over his head:
Paul, we need another emoticon here



Slightly higher than what? Read it properly - he said zero risk.
And what's zero times anything?



You will when you've lost your licence and your livelihood by doing 36 a few times in a 30 which you genuinely believed to be a 40.