Safe Speed Forums

In the case of the Renault I think it's space.

The bargain basement model has an old fashioned lever in the traditional place between the front seats. The better specced models get the electric parking brake and a big gap between the seats, where you can stick a handbag or briefcase. The top spec models have a huge storage bin (so big it needs it's own interior light and power point) topped off with a couple of armrests.

As for the mechanicals, it seems to be just a standard cable operated handbrake with a motor to wind it on. There is an emergency release tucked away at the back of the boot.

Main issue I have with it now is it's either full off or full on, which means an end to my bad habit of bringing the car to a stop using the handbrake for the last 6 feet or so.

Yes, I have a naughty habit of switching the engine off when I'm in crawling traffic on any kind of downhill stretch, and just trickling down by having the handbrake on one or two clicks - just enough to let it roll in a controlled fashion. I can't do that any more!

My electric handbrake seems to have two settings. If I manually put it on, I hear the motor whirr for a second or less. If I then don't do anything and just turn the ignition off, it whirrs a second time - making a slightly deeper noise, suggesting that the motor is drawing more current. The handbook talks of "full application" and "partial application". Interestingly, when you use it to do an emergency stop, the car stops MUCH better (and straighter) than with a conventional handbrake. I think it "fires" the ABS pump to bring in the hydraulic brakes too. Obviously, it needs to be able to meet the type approval requirements without help from the hydraulics, but I think it tries to use the hydraulics as well if that's possible. Even with one circuit failed, it just relies on the Electronic Stability Control to sort out any instability that might arise. There's a warning in the handbook to be extra careful when stopping on the handbrake if the ESC light is on! Quite what it expects you to do if the car tries to swap ends under those circumstances, it doesn't say! One horrid thing about it is that if the car DID try to go sideways, you couldn't release it quickly! Anyway, for whatever reason, the car certainly stops on its nose when I pull the handbrake on!

What would happen in the event of total electrical failure. It doenst happen very often but it does happen!

A traditional vehicle with hydralic brakes and cable handbrake can be brougt to a halt without requiring electricity. What would happen with one of these (Especially considering that ALL electric brakes are not too far away)?...

(I suppose you could have a sort of westinghouse system, but, on a road, that would be pretty damn dangerous too..)

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

You would still have the hydraulic brakes, but with no electric there would be no ABS, and presumably no engine (since it's only the computers keeping it running) so no servo assistance (and no power steering).

The lack of servo assistance would be a greater worry than the lack of electrical gizmos as many drivers will never have had any experience of having no assistance. I doubt many would be able to summon the necessary force on the middle pedal to bring the car to a halt. You'd be thrown back the the mid 1960's but without the benefit of drum brakes.

Without power assistance many people wouldn't be able to turn the wheel either, so evasive action would be out of the question.

The solution then is all to go find a nice safe Mk1 VW Polo (the last car I drove with no servo assisted brakes), and do some weightlifting.

Yes, if you had total electrical failure, you wouldn't be able to apply the handbrake but, as has been said, you'd still have the footbrake (albeit without all it's electronic whistles and bells). You'd still have several hard brake applications left after the engine stopped. The servo wouldn't be depleted the first time you used the brakes, so I don't see bringing it to rest safely as an issue. Even with the servo fully depleted, they still have to be able to manage a prescribed rate of deceleration with a maximum allowable pedal effort.

Perhaps a more realistic scenario would be the one where you come out one morning to a flat battery and you can't take the handbrake off to bump start the car! (They give you a little too that the jack handle clips on to and you can unwind it manually on this car).

There's a legal limit on how much heavier the steeing can get when the power assistance fails. In any case, it would be only like having the power steering pump belt fail on an ordinary car.

If there is then either it's set too high or is not being adhered to.

I've had experience of a few cars PAS failing and there is no way my wife could have steered them. One was a Nissan Micra which became unbelievably heavy.

You'd be amazd what people can do if they're scared enough!

I'd be amazed if the Micra didn't comply. The authorities are pretty strict in their application of the requirements and the penalties if a "non-compliance" is discovered are severe. The potential recall costs alone are enough to keep most manufcturers in-line!

You need to be able to steer it in a 20m radius circle at 10kph without applying more than about 30kg of force at the rim of the steering wheel to do it. To be honest, it's not a test most cars struggle with (especially small ones). Obviously, it gets lighter as speed increases. I agree she might struggle to do a very low speed parking manoeuvre with a failed assistance system though.

I have a vauxhall insignia with this piece of junk on it, and like most modern vauxhalls I've had the misfortune to drive the electrics are pretty shoddy - in the 20k miles I've done I've had sevral cases wher pulling away from lights it refuses to disengage - cue trying manual override - sometimes works - when it doesn't cue switch of ignition and restart engine.

Have had 3 modules changed - the mechanics at the fleet company hate the damm things due to the failures and number of recoveries they have to send out.

Not for me I'm afraid

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I've just twigged another advantage (if, indeed, it is one!) to electric handbrakes. You (in effect) get a secondary anti-theft device. I haven't been able to verify it, but presumably, as the handbrake will only release with the ignition on, it needs the transponder in the key that works the immobiliser, so if you wanted to nick the car, you'd now have to bypass the engine immobiliser AND get power to release the handbrake!

I thought you were going to follow that with "because no bugger would be able to figure out how to release it".
Driving with one of these for the first time, without being told about it, is a bit of a mind-bender!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Having lived with it for a few thousand miles now, I think I've got the hag of it. What doesn't help, is that the car also has "hill hold" - but that's nothing to do with the electric handbrake (as I later found out)! The hill-hold seems to know when you're facing UP-hill and when you take your foot off the brakes, they stay on for 2 seconds while you get your foot on the throttle. I could see how that might be an attractive feature for some. It almost completely "de-skills" hill starts! My problem is that I tend to be wanting to set off too soon. 2 seconds is quite a while! All that happens is that the engine bogs down and the tail squats. The other big problem is that you never know how much of a hill it will take to start it working. On very gentle slopes, I've had a slight shock when I've come to a stop, released the footbrake, and thought "oh, it's not rolling back, I'll not bother with the handbrake" - only to find it starting to roll back 2 seconds later!

The electric handbrake, in automatic mode, is something I'm getting on better with. You can almost just drive as if you didn't have one and leave it to do everything.