Safe Speed Forums

NBC - Raleigh Driving Instructor Provides Tips For Driving On Ice
Here
Look out for the ice, feel the less grip through the steering wheel. Typically ice shows up at 'glints' from your headlights, during night driving. Once it is cold enough for ice be prepared for ice patches in vulnerable (micro climate) areas, such as (as suggested already) exposed roads such as bridges, under trees, over small streams (some sat nav's can help to show you what you are going over as some bridges are not obvious), open areas of road too especially when you enter more rural areas too. As you go higher the temperature drops but too are dull shaded areas lower down or on the 'dark side of hills/mountains'.
Ice makes the tyres go quiet too. If you think some grip is being lost or you feel small 'kicks' stop safely and check the road surface. Sometimes ice sits just off the surface so you can obtain some grip but as soon as the water 'puddles above that surface ice and often black ice forms. Black ice is not visible, and why it is so lethal to the motorist as many are taken unaware.
Snow can land on ice making roads very dangerous so try and allow for ice under snow when cold (enough) or with prior knowledge.
Be very aware of the weather patterns of your local area and on you route too.
if your car tells you / warns you of dropping temperatures that are perhaps just above freezing, be aware of those 'vulnerable areas' and allow for ice. Slow and go steady, no sudden steering inputs.
If you find yourself on ice do not panic and try to brake, if you have room retain the straight steering input and do not alter things, it is highly likely to only last for a short period and you will hear the road and feel more when you have 'contact' again. Then you are safe to adjust your speed and alter steering input.
If you are on a corner but are holding then only do the minimal steering to be safe, you should have entered slow enough already, so it may just hold while you go over ice patch.
If you are skidding turn into the skid. If you need to slow/stop be ready to catch the car as you leave the ice patch. There are many thoughts on input aids during a skid, so decide for yourself what is best.
Practising in good weather on a good skid pan course (or private facilities), will reap many benefits when you find yourself in a skid from being familiar and knowing what actions you must, might or need to take.

Always keep all windows clear and ensure the car has a good supply of washer fluid and spare in the car too!
Other tools such as a spade/shovel, Hessian sack, rope, and good warm waterproof clothing, blanket, and boots too, may all help if you become stuck. Your breakdown 'rescue card' and mobile phone and battery charger too.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Claire is obviously doing a better job that the Raleigh Instructor...

One little tip that I use but it may not be for the faint hearted, is pick a stretch of road that seems pretty bad/icy and test brake/over accelerate, at low speeds on a straight, traffic free, bit of road, this will tell you just how much grip is available (obviously every bit of road will vary but testing on a particularly bad looking bit, will at least give you an approximate estimation if what's available)

This is especially useful for little used country back roads, that probably haven't been gritted and had little use.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I don't agree with this bit:

"Try to travel roads that have already been travelled so there are tyre tracks and things like that in the road so you don't have to create new ones for yourself."

Sometimes you're better off making new tracks in virgin snow.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Yes, provided it's not too deep, I think driving on virgin snow is just about always better.

Also, I've taken to putting a 50-50 solution of screenwash and water into a squeezy bottle in my door pocket. When the washer jets freeze (which is pretty readily) I can still wind down the window and squirt some of this on the screen!

Yes I agree too driving on snow is often better than the icy tracks of other vehicles, but if you have 4x4 would that also be the case ?
I will often keep some of the water in the car passenger compartments to keep it tepid than cold, or even frozen in the boot.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I have no problem driving on virgin snow - as long as it is virgin and not sitting on top of another layer which has turned to ice.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Piles of old snow at the side of the road often have patches of ice extending out from them which may well look or be wet.

These can get quite extensive when a weak sun shines briefly on the snow, so should be treated with caution if the road camber or direction might cause your vehicle to leave the intended line.

On high routes on some of Cumbria's passes, this is a real problem in winter, but still takes visitors by surprise - I think they view the wet tyre streaks away from these patches as a sign that it is simply water!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Yes, I imagine that even with a 4x4 it would still be the case, but on the same subject I recently posted this on AD-UK:

I've been thinking (yeah, yeah, I know ) about driving in snow. Imagine you're driving on a road where there is an appreciable depth of snow, but existing wheel tracks have already been made by previous traffic. What we should do, I reckon, is drive on the virgin snow rather than following in the existing wheel tracks, and then we're getting more of the snow flattened down, which reduces the risk of following vehicles being confronted with an excessive depth of the stuff. This can be quite relevant where it is snowing heavily, or we have strong winds causing the rapid accumulation of drifts. I have numerous 'fond' memories of such scenarios from the winters of the early 1960s.

One thing I used to find a complete PITA was when the Sprite used to get stuck in deep snow, because the snow was solidly packed up under the flat floor of the car, and all four wheels were clear of the ground! In that situation it was hard work getting the snow dug out from under the car so the tyres could get down to making contact with the hard packed snow again.

There will be no charge for this valuable tip.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I tend to do this when taking a right turn at roundabouts, I will try and use the right (usually untouched lane) to help flatten the snow and help everyone elses progress...

I think that a lot of people are worried about straying out of ready made tracks on roads, especially at speeds of 20MPH or more, because of the tendency for the steering to pull when you leave and rejoin the tracks, which can be frightening for people not used to it.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Yes, but with overall increased levels of grip. The 4x4 just does what a 2WD does, but better - so if a 2WD has less grip in the tyre tracks, the 4X4 will too - but still more than the 2WD.

4x4 s have considerably more traction, but it needs to be remembered that because of their higher CG and additional weight when it comes to stopping and cornering care still need to be taken. One advantage is when using the gears to slow, then you do have 4 wheels helping. By double de-cluching down through the gear box you can come to a virtual stand still without using the brakes. One thing that is required in slippery conditions, whatever vehicle you drive, is to do everything smoothly and gently. Use the pedals as if you have eggs under your feet.

When in a queue of traffic on an icy road in an automatic, front-wheel drive car; keep your foot on the brake, apply the handbrake, put the car in neutral and take your foot off the brake. That way the front-end won't start sliding on the road's gradient.

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Prepare to be Judged

Driving on ice - suspect the experts haven't sounded off - some of our SCP managers .( whhops sorry ,that's skating)

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

These people can spout off about the law and how "dangerous/antisocial/wrong it is to break a speed limit but when it comes to giving proper safety advice, that may save lives, they would be able to use a postage stamp to write there "knowledge" on.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Agreed good suggestions.
I also deliberately run over cats eyes too during the winter to help clean them - although not the horrid LED one's for obvious reasons!

I can see the 'main' snow tracks are almost showing the cats eyes I will (when safe and appropriate) run on them to help them shine later - although further snow storms may prevent any benefit.
Running on snow especially to lower the snow height is very helpful.
Being always vigilant to ice in or under the snow is obviously terribly important.
I was once travelling back in the early hours and there were just lorries and me, when we got the the really thick snow (and I worked the lorries so that I had a massive gap between me and the one behind me) the centre snow height was so deep and solid that the car ran on top of it with all wheels off the ground for about 200 yds! I stopped and checked all was ok and it was - looked at the amazing moonlight sparkling snow and the slowly descending rumble of the lorry as it made it's way through the huge scenery - it was especially stunning - and so quiet!

I carry extra fuel too, just in case! I usually have various food options and always a way to make a hot drink.

Another point is that running the air con helps to very quickly reduce mist on the inside of the windows, or if you enter the car wet (or snow covered) the air con will quickly take away the water content in the car. Running it hot of course so you don't freeze!)

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I had a real wake-up call today. I took the kids to school and it was pretty darned slippy on the way! Obviously, it's pretty hilly round here, so there were a fair few places where loss of grip (or traction) were very noticeable.

Anyway, as I left the school, I passed a group of four mums talking. One of them said "I really need to get my car looked at. The brakes felt really funny on the way here a few times and the car took ages to stop!" Immediately, two others said that they'd had similar experiences and that the brake pedal sometimes vibrated, so there must be something wrong with the brakes...

I know some of them socially, and they're not stupid either!

It's sometimes scary how little "joe public" seems to know! (Although I guess it does go a long way towards explaining why so many readilly believe that "speed kills")!

Just lack of information and precious few places to ask.
Perhaps good driving tips ought to be placed on milk or bread or hair products !

There was a report a little while ago that said that with some salt running a little low (until new stocks arrived) an alternative liquid might be / would be used. If that is the one that trial in Scot (and Essex many yrs ago) it was awful and more slippery than the ice ! The one that had molasses in.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.