Safe Speed Forums

First one - there'd be a fence( six foot ,with pointy spikes) ,with a warning about a £1000 fine for trespassing .

Second one -some land owner would have notices about trespassing , and sued the aunt ,having made sure all the gates were closed .

And Dusty - how close was I on the "SINK TEST" -

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Not necessarily - they could be on a station platform, for example.
Also, I've seen unprotected cliff edges accessible from the road - not many, but they do exist - eg the ones above Dover.
And there are other hazards as well, like canals.

But back to the point - even if there had been a 20mph limit there, I shudder to think what would have happened had the kid run out directly in front of a bus or lorry.

What beats me is, when exactly did someone decide that roads are a safe environment for kids? That mythical time has never existed.
In the 19th century, kids were trampled to death in their thousands every year under hoof and carriage wheel, and even before that they died like flies from the effects of raw sewage running down the streets.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Quite.
The laws of physics apply to everyone, and the most deceleration one can achieve is around 0.7-0.9g, depending on the road surface. Even a Formula 1 car wouldn't achieve much more than that at low speeds (without any down-force)
This means that, at 20mph, including reaction time, you need four or more car-lengths in which to stop, and even from 10mph you need at least one car-length.
The bottom line is, if you step out directly in front of any moving vehicle, you must expect to get hit.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

I was thinking about his today, had the driver been on the ball, after a couple of days he would have a vague recollection of the day some dumb kid ran out in front of him. As it is, he wasn't on the ball and for a very long time he will be able to recall vividly the child bouncing across his bonnet. there will be feelings of guilt and what if I had done x y and z.

Did anyone see Hammond and Stirling Moss? They both said that people thought they were lucky. Hammond said he would have been much luckier had he not have had a puncture. The child would have been even luckier of he/she had not run out in front of a car that perhaps wasn't paying qui ough attention.

And as you can see below even getting hit by a car can cause a 3 year old to take up smoking and drinking . (mirror.co.uk)

Yoohoo, Greenshed, where are you hiding?

We're all waiting here with bated breath for your words of wisdom on all the points we've addressed to you

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Don't hold on too long - the windchill factor will take effect soon .Sometomes I wonder of GS is affected by the effects of being cooped up too long underwater ,which affects his mental stability ,and his memory . Something like the "Ancient mariners" disease - sort of like a sea going version of Altzheimers,caused by being too close to a Uranium pile ( or it being too close to a real pile)

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

The nice thing about having Alzheimers is that you're always meeting new people (before anyone takes offence, let me point out that my Mum suffered from it)

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

You missed the "Ancient Mariners disease" ,once caused by killing an Albatross ,the reference to GS (being kind to him was that his days close to a nuclear pile had brought on a sort of Alzheimers ), or that he'd just got nuclear piles .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I didn't miss it - just didn't think it was necessary to repeat your whole quote



.. or a pile of something else

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

I bought my son a copy of "Roadcraft" about 7 or 8 years ago and was dismayed to see the sections on speed limits included which I did not recall from earlier versions. "Roadcraft" has had revisions over the years but I have a feeling that this particular set of additions occurred in Brunston's time as head of the Chief Constables Traffic Group (or whatever it was called). Perhaps someone with closer contacts than I could check to see what revisions were done at what times.

Generally this sort of statement ("blind obedience is essential!") negates all the valuable stuff.

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The only thing that should be prohibited is prohibition.

Are you suggesting our urban roads are as dangerous as trains or cliff edges?

Well we all missed GS 'S further comments -but along pops weepy.

(post edited by PeterE as moderator)

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Well hello again, weepej, still with your usual trolling stunts I see, adding absolutely nothing of value to the discussion

But, in this instance I'll indulge you and answer your question with another question:

Have you ever seen what a buse's wheels can do to a small child?

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

The answer to that Weepej is, unfortunately, more dangerous than railway lines: less dangerous than cliff edges.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Very!

Poorer families would leave sickly newborns in the sink overnight. If they were still alive next morning they were considererd strong enogh to be worth calling (And paying for!) the Doctor.

It was not generally talked about but widly practiced,

Although Childern severly disabled from diseases such as polio and rickets were common in poorer communities. Children disabled from birth were almost unheard of!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Ok, so an ad hominin attack followed by a completely pointless question.

And it's I that adds absolutely nothing of value to the discussion?

Folks, can we ensure we remain civil and on topic please?


I'll restart:

When stepping into roads: drivers will avoid or stop quickly when you step into their paths.
When stepping into a railway line: the train will endeavour to stop but can only do so slowly; also they cannot avoid. Furthermore, there is the merciless penalty (electrocution - where there are electric lines) that you don't get with road surfaces.
When stepping off a cliff: there will be uncontrolled acceleration and no braking - until you reach something at the end; need I say more?

I don't see how your question helps the debate. While a road probably isn't as dangerous as other areas, it doesn't absolve the guardian of their responsibility towards their ward.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Steve,

I just gave what I thought was an appropriate response to what I saw as being a loaded question designed to throw the discussion off course - and not without precedent either.

I apologise if I read it wrongly.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

I’m not sure what the relevance of the cliff was if I’m honest. But if it was to draw an analogy to a car hitting a child at 20 mph, my analogy would be it’s like blaming the cliff for being too high or just being there in the first place. (That what I took Pete to be suggesting?). In other words, at what point does the person who gets hurt take responsibility for their own actions?

It’s not always one-sided. It can be the child’s fault, or the supervisor of that child, just as it can be the driver’s fault. But I know weepej’s argument usually goes, (and do please correct me if I’m wrong), in any pedestrian/car collision it is the driver at fault because it is the driver who is in charge of a giant killing machine?

I’ve never once known you entertain the notion that in any such collision the pedestrian was entirely at fault but again, do correct me if I’m wrong and point me to a link if possible?

Your answer and solution weepej is always for the driver to go slower thereby mitigating any collision and absolving pedestrians of any responsibility to be a good pedestrian who should know and understand what I knew as a kid as the Green Cross Code. I'm alive because of it and it was inculcated into me by both the TV and my mother.


Where is that today? It's always the driver's fault...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.