Safe Speed Forums

IIRC there was a study that was being done. It was started by an anti smoking group (I do not recall whether it was gov or other) looking at the long term effects of passive smoking. The study had no input from or connection with tobacco companies.

The study was abandoned after 2 or 3 years because the data was not showing the expected result of passive smoking is bad/harmful to people constantly exposed.

The abandoned study was then picked up and financed by the tobacco industry to the end. I do not recall any publicity or announcement as to the results of the study after it was completed. (Conspiracy hat on) I have a suspicion that the original hypothesis was confirmed and the tobacco companies then buried the report (Conspiracy hat off).

I didn't have to google much to find various research about the effects of passive smoke on people.
Forget lung cancer: Those who got it by smoking would have got it anyway from another source etc.
Go into the effects of smoke on the heart/circulation, and the lungs.
I'll refer to you the fact that smoking in the vehicle (whether moving or not) is an offence if it is a "work" vehicle (with various exceptions) and on public transport and passenger aircraft.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

It's late and I need my bed but after reading that Jom I have to post a quickie please..

I may be a victim of Bull Poop but I read that aircraft used to circulate the air when smoking was allowed but since the ban they don't and as a result the air quality has become worse in an effort to reduce aircraft energy or something???

I've really gotta go to bed now but thought I could squeeze that in and maybe I read something which was close to the truth in the papers for once

Night night. Zzzzz

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

My first take on the anti smoking lobby is that although they've never gotten into the habit ,they think that it's ooh so easy to stop .
Tale one - my late dad - stopped , for one simple reason - my mum smoked - and she had massive health problems , heart and lung problems ,and he thought that she might stop if he did -never happened .
I stopped , not for health reasons , but because I wanted to - oh -I was lucky - I'd stopped several times before - but had several stress reasons for starting again . Last time -I was lucky , I've had several nicotine cravings ,but fought them off -Mrs B still smokes , she's tried to give up -but the time is not right .

I ,personally get upset /cough /sneeze in the presence of tobacco smoke , BUT -when the smoke police come round - I get her in the car - and put up with it - It's my car - I decide what happens in it - so they can go get stuffed ( as with Paxo's finest) -I might not like it -but it's my choice .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I'm of the opinion everything in moderation won't kill you. Our bodies are actually very good at protecting itself despite all the problems we have.

You're not one of those ex smokers who became completely anti-smoking then Botach?

When I was young and used to go around to my aunties with my mum there were six adults all smoking in the lounge. When my uncle came back from the pub he said it was like entering a thick fog. It was always the same if we were in a car too but back then, in the 60s, it was the norm.

How I grew into the healthy handsome man I am today is beyond me But of course I was never stuck in front of an X-Box or on facebook for 12 hours of the day or being driven around everywhere...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Does no one else see the irony of banning something that causes air pollution inside a machine that is polluting the air outside?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Perhaps these calls for a total ban on smoke/driving is simply a cunning social engineering trick of making driving seem less attractive, without actually admitting it?

I think this would explain the unreasonable arguments given for support of the ban

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

"Never attribute to malice or cunning that which can be satisfactorily explained by stupidity".

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Hanlon's razor - "Never attribute to malice that which can be satisfactorily explained by stupidity"- or Clark's law -"Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice." - seem apposite to this.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Thinking back to my smoking days - I was possibly one of the worst offenders of inflicting my smoke on others - so now ,can I object if others smoke around me -be a bit hypocritical -and then ,if it didn't harm me with the quantity I smoked ,will someone's one or two do enough harm to make me offend them . Strangely enough ,what did me most harm in stopping ,was the lack of health info from NHS -they were all on for stopping ,but not one mention of the dangers of the weight gain that came with it -and that's what did me the most damage .

Health matters strike me as being on a par with road safety and policing .One old Beat Sergeant once said that he'd long watched the upper ranks and decided that somewhere in Police HQ was a cupboard ,full of ideas .Once every so often a CI or above would open the cupboard ,and what fell out was considered the next month's priority .He had visions of a monthly ceremony of "open the ideas cupboard".

Some years ago ,I went for my first rail medical - to find BUPA walls plastered with anti drink posters .Next medical ,few years later - the walls had anti smoking posters .Last time -it was BMI propaganda- of course ,those that had quit had piled on the pounds ,through bad medical propaganda .So my conclusion is that the most dangerous thing to hit the British public is health professionals on a crusade .
Hence -I don't preach anti smoking propaganda ,or lecture on the evils of the demon fag .I conquered my dragon - if asked for advice -I'll GIVE IT -it's like finding two young ladies in distress at the roadside - in my youth ,I'd have no qualms - today - someone would call my motives into question

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

It's worse than that !
I cannot use aircraft, hence do not "fly".....my O2 sats are between 90-93% (good day) so flying most places is now out of the question (apart from the obvious reason, airlines like to be told they have a passenger who will probably need extra oxygen).
The cabin pressure is about equivalent to that at 8000 ft...the cabin O2 is about 15%....and you thought the reason you felt knackered after getting back from the US was time zones ?
I lasted an hour at those two parameters in a test...

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Nah, they don't take oxygen out of the air they compress for the cabin, so its just under 21%. This doesn't change with altitude, only the pressure does.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Yes but the partial presure is still only about 75% of the sea level value. (Overall oxigen content if you like)

Most "healthy" people would have a hard time running for a bus at 8000ft AND most "healthy" people have to be pretty ill for SATS to drop below 100%

SATs routinly at 90 and below is pretty and I would imagine flying (or even driving into the mountains!) would be really quite dangerous!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Not only that, but the lower air pressure means that oxygen does not get into the blood as easily as it does at ground level.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

So your quote does not contradict me in the slightest. The concentration of oxygen does not change as a %age of the atmosphere, it is always just under 21% of whatever is present. The "oxygen analyzers" (sic) read less because they were calibrated at lower density altitudes. What changes is the partial pressure. You could try to argue the toss with me on this one, but you'd be ill-advised, given my area of expertise.

As an aside, Denver (and I'm assuming they mean the 'mile-high' city here) does not have an altitude, it has an elevation. I'd be quite happy to go into this too if anyone disagrees.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

It is the partial pressure that affects health, not the percentage.

As an aside, Denver (and I'm assuming they mean the 'mile-high' city here) does not have an altitude, it has an elevation. I'd be quite happy to go into this too if anyone disagrees.[/quote]

Please do so. In the English, as opposed to the American, language Denver is at an altitude of 5,281 feet above sea level. And I am told that the elevation of the Mayor to office is a great spectacle. Off course architects have a special use of the word elevation in the context of their drawings. And your profession might well use the word in a technical sense. But to referring to an elevation above sea level is fractured English.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

No it isn't, it's correct English, just because it may not sound right to you does not stop it being so, the problem in that case would lie with the listener! The surface of the earth, and objects on it, cannot have altitude, they have elevation. Altitude refers to objects that are above the surface of the earth, and refers to their height above a datum, sometimes but rarely mean sea level, far more often a reference pressure, and never the surface (as that would be height). The quote uses the term incorrectly, I'm sure if you search around you'll find the correct useage to be more prevalent.

Of course the partial pressure is the key to breathing it, I never disputed that, I was merely pointing out that the atmosphere in a pressurised cockpit still contains 21% Oxygen, regardless of what pressure it is at.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

I see what you mean.
The oxygen percentage in the air is still 21%, but available oxygen is lower...down 25% at times because of the atmospheric pressure.
But with less oxygen available, and at a lower barometric pressure, the cardio-pulmonary system has a hard job keeping the O2 sats at 98% +.
Most people are at 95% on leaving the aircraft. Mines at 93% getting onto the thing....maybe I'll drive down to Spain...although I have been told that 2 hours or less will cause minor problems...

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

OF course it can. Altitude: height: perpendicular elevation above a given level (Collin's NED)


I have never, in Britain, heard anyone refer to the elevation of a mountain. Height is the term preferred by the Ordnance Survey. Elevation is an American usage which is why it sounds wrong to my English educated ears. In England elevation more usually refers to the angular height of an object, companion to azimuth.

But I do appreciate that in your professional life altitude does have a specific technical meaning.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

What I do notice with the medical profession ( in keeping with the road "safety " lot) is that one idea prevails .We've seen all this "passive smoking " ideas - gets lots of publicity ,but not so long ago some researchers came up with the idea that smoking was the catalyst to the gene .Then there's the "wonder drug" -Aspirin - loved by GPs( to the tune of several £k PER PATIENT) -but getting a bad press for other problems .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on