Safe Speed Forums

I think the real point of this is that the slower driver, by signalling left, is indicating to the potential overtaker that he is aware of his presence and will do nothing to obstruct the manoeuvre. Too many slow drivers are oblivious to what is behind them and are likely to speed up as you start to overtake.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Good point, I will, sometimes, if following a driver who doesn't seem to be using his mirrors, indicators as much as he/she should, give them a quick headlight flash just as I signal to overtake them just to let them know that I am behind and, hopefully, they will notice me and not pull out without indicating/looking at the same time.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Amazing thread this - Graball and me agreeing on something

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

There has to be a first time for everything

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

If a large vehicle indicates left, overtake with extreme caution. If they are actually about to turn left there's a chance they may swing to the right to facilitate this.

So it's now to just say I am not going to speed up? They shouldn't speed up anyway, and I have not encountered anyone that does. I am not saying it doesn't happen (because it obviously does), but it's rather rare.

If it's working for you that's fine, and I do appriciate the effort gone into explaining it, but I just view it as more of a hazard than a help, given the reason I said in previous posts.

Just don't curse the driver behind if you are doing this to tell them it's ok to overtake and they don't, it might not be as clear to them as it is to you. And it might be me

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If you think everyone else around you is driving badly, perhaps it's time to examine your own driving.

Read the full quote please. It is about indicating your awareness of the following vehicles desire to overtake and your willingness to cooperate with his manouver


It is generally obvious when a following vehicle, especially a motorcycle, is pressing to overtake and that is the circumstance in which you would give the signal. In my experience it is generally understood and appreciated.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Indeed it is. But it is turning out to not even be clear amoung you two. It's to say investigate the road, or the driver won't speed up, or the driver *might* slow down if needed... can you see my point?

A good example. While going along on a road with no left turn coming up, the driver ahead indicates left, their meaning 'I am ok for you to overtake and will assist.'

The person behind, knowing the road, thinks 'Ah, they could be lost, theres no turn there.' And doesn't overtake because they think this person might speed up when they realise theres no turning.

And of course, the person in front is thinking 'Why didn't that idiot overtake? I won't bother next time.'

You can easily turn the situation the other way around, where the driver in front actually is lost, and indicates, and the person behind mistakes this for saying they will assist with the overtake.

However the driver who was looking for a turning they thought should be there (who probably isn't looking in their mirrors as they should be), speeds up again while the other driver is overtaking.


I wonder how many situations like this has happened where the driver behind thought the one in front was playing silly buggers and blocking them, and the driver who got overtook (or nearly overtook) thought the one behind was stupid and impatient.

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If you think everyone else around you is driving badly, perhaps it's time to examine your own driving.

oo interesting... not been on this thread for a while so not aware of the twists and turns.

i might occasionally use one or two flashes on the left indicator to show i'm aware of the driver behind wishing to proceed faster and will cooperate with an overtake.
on some occasions this might coincide with me exiting a corner and getting a good view of a clear road in advance of the following driver, which may give some indication that i've decided and overtake is on the cards if they choose it.
it's pretty rare in my case this is a car, if i'm in a queue of traffic they can stay behind or if i'm travelling at what i think is a decent speed i won't back off just to facilitate a pass for them.
often very useful for emergency vehicles if the road is clear enough just to back off and allow them past without causing them to slow down in sympathy with you.
more often than not it's a motorbike, who is clearly going to be able to outrun me and mostly i'd rather have them safely past and out of the way than buzzing round my rear end. often their centre of road positioning means the indicator is lost on them so i often accompany it with a submissive road position closer to the kerb giving them plenty of room to pass. often appreciated with a wave from nice bikers.

that said i treat similar signals with due caution, usually based on the context, other hazards and assesment of their driving so far, and i'd expect others to do the same with me.

Well, P, it seems to work for me, DCB and Ed, but if it doesn't work for you, don't worry about it.
Everyone has different tchniques and that's one thing that you learn when you drive a lot of miles at all hours of the day...you just don't know what to expect next and obviously every situation is different, so it's best to assess each situation as you find it and do as you feel best/safest doing.

I'm not here to educate drivers how to overtake because overtaking is probably one of the most dangerous manouveres that we do. Everyone has a different comfort zone with it and different vehicles/performance levels, so what works for one person , obviously isn't going to work for everyone.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I have also seen the left indicator used with a brake or flash of the brake lights ...

I can see the different viewpoints about how it might be perceived too. I can understand that people often/regularly assess other's driving as an aid in helping diagnose driver behaviours and 'the awareness levels' of a given driver / rider.
Timing is often important.
It is often more common after a Right hand bend, we found, now this can also aid vision with the trailing rider/driver too. They might need more help on the 'after left bend', where little or no vision has been achievable. Cars that hang back (pref min. 2 secs) may get better views, are more 'aware' drivers and likely to correctly position and easily overtake at their controlled rate & pace.

When I pull my horse box I will use many layby's to prevent traffic build up, but I will try to aid overtakers by positioning / indicators, but the finess of my submissive actions will (to a degree) control the follower, as I assess their driving ability and (likely) intentions. I always try to do everything to help an overtaker, where appropriate.
Where someone is dangerous and I have little confidence in their ability at all, I have even stopped at the beginning of a long clear straight to help them. (Where no layby's exist).

I worked out that most overtake's take approx. 5 seconds, from before you cross your white line, to getting back inside it.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Tried it the weekend 40mph to 70mph in ~2.8 seconds and if anyone has a car which is even remotely close to that I’d be interested to know what it is.

I wonder if there's a lag so the needle reading is actually behind the real speed? If so, It may be even quicker

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

As previously mentioned, I'm buying a new car shortly, it'll do:

0-30mph 2.5 sec
0-60mph 5.7 sec
0-100mph 13.9 sec
30-50mph in 3rd/4th 2.4 / 3.8
40-60mph in 4th/5th 3 / 4.7 sec
50-70mph in 5th 3.9 sec
Top speed 163 mph

Close, but no match for yours, Tone!

Bloomin’ good for a car though! Good on ya and hope it serves you well


I think many car drivers, if not most, underestimate just how quick a performance bike is and many’s the time I have seen a car driver trying to ‘have a go’ in their BMW Z3/4 or fancy Merc. Etc.

When it’s happened to me I just let them get on with it and allow them bask in their false glory. (I make a point of not getting into a piddling contest on public roads although there’s nothing wrong or illegal, yet, in getting a wriggle-on from stationary.

The quickest car I personally have come across was a TVR, about three years ago. He was at the back of three cars and I was behind him. Thinking I could just overtake the lot where the road opened out, he indicated to do the same so I followed... Man did that thing fly!!! I’ve never seen a car overtake like that. I’ve no idea what the model was.

My bike isn’t a racer but it has lots of grunt and the 40 to 70 mph in second gear just so happens to put it right in the power band. So whacking the throttle open at 40 is like a kick up the bum. It doesn’t just accelerate, it launches into warp drive, literally pulls your arms out the sockets. (Very useful to get you out of trouble, and into it too of course if you’re not careful ).

To put it into perspective, take a look at the 0-60 and 0-100 figures for the Hayabusa. (Sub 2.5 seconds and 5.0 seconds respectively). Same could be said of the R1, GSX-R etc.

I don’t arf prattle

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Having said that, there's nothing worse than a slightly slow motorbike for holding you up.

I was following three bikes along the A272 recently. My current Clio's no slouch and these three bikes (clearly together) were holding me up, as they travelled in the "ready to overtake" position behind whatever was in front, so I just couldn't pass them. I finally got past one, so on the next DC the other two rode two abreast in front of me and let them catch up.

I followed them all the way from Midhurst to beyond Petersfield when they evntually pulled over for a chat, thank goodness.

The TVRs of the mid 1990s were generally reckoned to be "pretty quick" - especially from (say) 50-70 (and maybe a tad beyond)!

Back in those days, I used to drive home from Blackpool to Preston down the M55 and a collegue who had a ZZR1100 would often also be heading the same way. It never ceased to amaze me how he could pull up next to me, wait for me to drop down into 3rd and then give me the finger and crack open the throttle. Literally, if we both accelerated as hard as we could from our motorway cruising speed simultaneously, he'd open out enough of a gap on me for me not to be able to finish reading his numberplate!