Safe Speed Forums

That's a bad idea in my opinion. It's not exactly obvious what you are telling them by indicating. If it was me, I'd just think they are lost (which 9 times out of 10, that's what it is).

I first thought certainly would not be that someone is indicating for that purpose, and even if it was, I wouldn't presume that's what they meant, as if I got it wrong, there could well be a bad situation coming up.

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If you think everyone else around you is driving badly, perhaps it's time to examine your own driving.

You misunderstand the type of road that I am talking about. This isn't an urban road with many turn offs, I'm talking about long straight rural roads where there is no chance of turning off. If I follow people on these types of road then a left indicator can only mean, (a) that they want me to pass or (b) that they are pulling over to the verge to stop, which again if the road ahead is clear would lead to an overtake situation anyway.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Agree with Pratnership here, wouldn't be sure what your indicating for, my instinct would be your pulling into a house or a small turn off I don't know about and would back off to see what your going to do. To be honest I don't see what you trying to achieve with this anyway. I might of been faster that you until I go on your back and not want to overtake, or not want to overtake at that instant so your indicator would confuse me and would cause me to back off.

It’s never a good idea to act like a self appointed traf pol. When drivers do stupid or dangerous things I just let it go, so long as there is no damage. Chances are their behaviour will catch up with them soon enough without my intervention.

Cooler - I have followed two cars in recent months which had a sticker in the window saying, from memory, something like “I stick to speed limits”. (I don’t know where they got them from because I can’t find anything like it on the web).

Maybe that would have helped your situation At least the other driver would have been aware it wasn’t personal.

I should imagine something like that would also be of use to drivers on nine points...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I won't break 'The Rules', and I won't exceed my personal limits.
From there it would follow that I would only drive into a lane normally reserved for oncoming traffic only if it were safe to do so, when road and traffic conditions leave me enough spacetime to get back on my side of the road (I only need about two thirds of what the Vehicle & Traffic code recommends), and when 'everyone' amounts to no more than two other vehicles that I could easily outpace. (It's The Rush, not The Racer.)

Other people tend to get offended when someone uses a lane that they wouldn't use to make a pass. I really could care less if someone uses the shoulder, or even the lane normally reserved for oncoming traffic, to pass me - as long as there is no oncoming traffic, and as long as no one is using the shoulder, of course.
In my case, it's not unlikely that we may both over the posted speed 'limit'; but it makes no difference. I'll help them to pass me if at all safely possible. By my road position, I will present an opening to where I feel it would be safest to pass me, for both of us. The other car passes me, and life goes on.
(If I were driving so fast that I didn't think it would be safe to pass me, the likelihood that the car behind me is a cop skyrockets by orders of magnitude, which means I should both slow down AND allow the pass - and the sooner, the better.)

In fact, it pleases me to cooperate with another driver to increase the utilization rate of the road we're on. That we both did it at 'extra-legal' speeds only proves that those going slower than us have no excuse but to drop the self-righteous bu11$h!t [and perhaps to go and get remedial training?].

[tangent]
I forget the state in this country (but it starts with a 'V') that was enlightened enough to pass laws which explicitly amount to ...

If someone behind you is speeding, and you do not permit them to pass, you are both wrong.

It could very well mean that, by preventing someone from speeding, you denied the state the money from the speeding ticket the other driver was going to get.

It definitely means that if someone wants to pass you, and you can physically and safely do so, you should. If the other driver undertakes, he gets a summons for speeding and a summons for passing on the wrong side {undertaking?}, and you get a ticket for not moving over. (What a racket.)

Were I driving there, I'd adjust to the local driving culture, perhaps by significantly reducing the number of undertakes (?) I'd perform, and increasing the number of overtakes I'd encourage, among other things.

I do believe that the higher the speed limits tend to get, the more sense it makes to encourage overtaking, and discourage undertaking. When everyone - including the state - is on the same sheet of music, everyone tends to be safer.
[/tangent]

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The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

If you are travelling faster than me but instead of overtaking, you want to sit on my tail and my indicating doesn't encourage you to overtake, but to back off then that would be fine by me because , otherwise, I would find your tailgating annoying.

However ,in the real world, you usually find drivers of HGV and large vans will encourage vehicles that they can see want to overtake but are having problems seeing past them because of their size, doing just as I suggested, to encourage and help the overtake.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

That's exactly the point, people who are lost might be looking for a turnoff that doesn't exist.

So you forgot the following:

(c) that they are lost and think there is a turning when there isn't

(d) they hit the indicator by accident (it most certainly does happen)

It would be wrong to assume they know the road. It would be even more wrong in my view to assume that they are saying the way ahead is clear and it's ok for you to overtake.

You know what they say about assumption, and assumption while driving can lead to accidents.

If I see someone indicate on a road where I know theres no turning, I wait to see what they are going to do before overtaking.

In the 'real' world, my expirence is that they will wave you on rather than use indicators. In fact I cannot remember a single instance of what you described happening without them actually pulling over, HGVs included.

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If you think everyone else around you is driving badly, perhaps it's time to examine your own driving.

Really? Well the close on a million miles that I have covered in the last 35 years, must be in a totally different part of the world to you then, that's all I can say about that.

It's a rather quaint thought that someone travelling at the limit (especially HGVs) are going to pull over just to let you past and the idea of someone doing sixty on a country road winding down their window to give you a little wave (especially if it's dark), is something that I have yet to see.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

One thing that I have noticed and more so in recent years, is that some drivers when they are about to be overtaken, tend to brake just at the point when someone is starting the overtake manouvere. This in my opinion is a very bad move. A good overtake manouvere takes into consideration the speed of the car that you are following, the distance you have to cover before completing the overtake, the distance of clear road ahead and the distance that your car is behind the lead car. When you start to accelerate to overtake, if the lead car suddenly slows then the distance between the two cars is reduced faster than your brain has calculated for which means that the angle of the overtake is sudenly sharpened. If a driver in the overtaking car is too close to the lead car this can result in possible clipping of the lead car. It's far better when being overtaken to continue at the speed that you were at and be prepared to slow once the overtaker is along side you, if you feel that you want to allow him to complete the overtake manouvere faster.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

From my (limited) experience when a HGV or van wants to assist in an overtake they just move as far over left as possible so you can still be in your lane and see ahead, I've never seen a left indicator meaning clear to overtake.

Perhaps the million miles was on the same road....



You think it's quaint, I think it's plain common sense not to assume the driver ahead is not using the indicator to tell you it's clear to overtake ahead.

I'd rather rely on my own eyes and estimate than guess that the person ahead is trying to tell me something other than turning left by using their indicator.

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If you think everyone else around you is driving badly, perhaps it's time to examine your own driving.

You would be a total idiot if you assumed that a left indicator was to pull out blind without assessing the road ahead for yourself BUT you asked how people could assist someone who was following them at the limit and wanted to overtake and this is what I would do. Obviously you wouldn't do it to every car that comes up behind you but you do develop an instinct, by the speed of the approach, how close they follow you and if they are "edging" to get past, whether or not someone wants to overtake because they are in a bigger hurry than yourself. To me , it's helpful if you indicate a stretch of road that is long enough/ clear enough for them to "investigate" an overtake, obviously every car has differnt performance characteristics and every driver has a different technique and "comfort zone" so only a total fool would immediately overtake just because some one indicates to let them know that the lead car feels it is safe to do so.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I inhabit your world, Grab. What you describe is a standard courtesy around here, specially when given to motorcyclists. Waving people past belongs to a rather more leisurely age than the one we live in. When I signal left and ease of the gas I am saying "I will actively cooperate with any attempt you make to overtake me, slowing down as necessary". Usually gets an appreciative wave.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Despite the sarcastic undertone, you do have a relative point.

Although most of my drivng has been done in rural Wales and The Midlands, with very little percentage of motorawy driving, you are right in that different driving "habits" and "styles" can be noticed in differing areas. For instance the West Midlands area that borders Shropshire has a much different "average " speed to Shropshire and this is probably because it was so built up, even in the seventies, that even when they got an open road situation they would not drive to the limit. When I crossed back into Shropshire at the end of my working day, speeds and driving styles changed(for the better IMO). I have a friend in Derbyshire who I used to visit and I noticed there, that driving styles were different. Although I have driven very little in London, I found the driving to be very aggressive compared to where I live. Wales is different again, to where I live (despite the number of tourists, you get to notice the locals driving around there). Even on the few long motorway journeys, that I have done, (not during peak holiday time when everyone using the motorway is doing high mileages) you notice areas where the driving style changes for a few miles then changes again as you hit another county or area.

Maybe the left indicator is something that is more prominant in my local area, it's certainly been around since I learnt to drive.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Yes, perhaps it's a sixties/ seventies thing that has now died out amongst the younger drivers. It's probably frowned upon as "giving people bad ideas" or encouraging people to "speed" ....

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Yeah, what the hell's that about? Scares the hell out of me and seems to imply nerves on the part of the overtakee.

If it's something that is being taught, it wants nipping in the bud,pretty damn quick.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Youngsters on 'bikes seem to understand what I mean and express their appreciation. Just thinking: we have replace the up and down hand signal for slowing down with brake lights: we have replaced the right and left hand signals with indicators: but we haven't replaced the waving past hand signal with any lighting signal. Perhaps rapidly alternating left, right, left, right rear indicators would do the job.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Being a biker, most people in the outside lane on DCs or motorways will move as far to the right and indicate to the right (nowhere for them to go) to let bikers know that they have seen them and are willing for them to move past in the gap they have created. This behaviour will get a nod, wave or right foot out.

BTW, most bikers when they stick their foot out are not being aggressive if it is done in a leisurely manner. Kung Fu style kicks from the waist tend to mean that you are a f wit in their opinion.

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Prepare to be Judged

Ah, the continental wave. I wondered what that was when I was in France the first time and a biker overtook me with his leg out in my direction. I thought I'd done something. But it's their way of saying hi

The other one I liked was the low hand gesture, like you're showing how tall your dog is. The lower your hand the more cool, so I believe

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.