Safe Speed Forums

My history

Racing and riding m/bikes for 25 years.

Lost more of my freinds through M/bikes than i have left.

Had more close calls, than the average luck of most riders. Why do i stop and miss accidents.

My accident planning is rather simple.

I plan not to have them!

Your plan to avoid an accident is planning too late

Jumping off a m/bike, is a numptie suggestion, and will put you directley in line with other traffic.

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Steve

Good job you had time to look what you are stepping into. My mate john did not see the transit van, he is now buried in Luton, he was 22 years old.

Staying on the bike also carries risk.

My mate dave was cremated at Luton, age 36, hit the wing thrown over the top and hit the curb with his head.



You will not know that until almost the point of impact, and that is too late



Better to be run over and ripped up by axles then

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Steve

Well paul, i suggest you go back and read my post, which was directed at the writer of the article not Horse.

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Steve

Doesn't that mean, if I understand your English, if you're having more close calls than the average rider that:
a. Your planning isn't all you claim;
and
b. You're not learning anything from them.



OK, as I said, I'm prepared to learn. What did I miss, what could I have done differently?



And faced with the same crash situation, what would you have done?

(let me remind you that my bike was knocked sideways, turned through 90 degrees, and ended up under the front of the on-coming car - ie as you say "put you directley in line with other traffic")

So far you're doing very well at knocking what I did, but adding nothing of any use.

I'm pretty sure Horse was the author. Not thinking again?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Just to confirm for any hard-of-thinking posters, Paul's correct.

'Horse' was the author, and as a result of 'jumping', the author is still Horse.

You are the rider involved in the accident, i am the rider avoiding them

Yes, i push my bikes to their limit, and do rather alot of miles.

Simple percentage, more miles = more risk



Will need full details, weather, road layout, the actual fault.



That is due to jumping off the bike, and letting go uncontrolled.

What if your bike would of mounted the pavement and took out an innocent pedestrian

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Steve

Odd philosophy you have - because you (just) manage to avoid actual crashes from all these close calls, there's nothing you need to change or improve.

FWIW, my most-recent previous 'crash' was 8 years ago when a van pushed the parked bike over . . . and prior to that in 1992 when a neighbours car was reversed in to the bike in the same location!

And prior to that, 1988, a rear-wheel puncture on the M3.

So hardly a riot of terror on the roads, am I?




Adding to those details already provided, it was 13.10 on a Friday lunchtime, broad daylight, dry, clear, etc., and the other driver admitted liability to the attending police.



No, Steve, it was due to the bike being hit in the side by a Peugot.



Oh dear . . . Put 'straws' and 'clutching' in the same phrase.

Don't forget to include 'potential risk to the fluffy kittens' in your next post.


So, you still haven't said what you would have done in the same situation. I had a second, you've had hours. I would have hoped an experienced rider could have thought of something by now.

Your bike was parked, so you were not actually on the bike, so jumping off is irrelevant. Talk about clutching at straws



Advising bikers to jump off their machines in the event of an accident, would equal incitement to terror.

If all bikers took your advice, we would have unmanned (woman) bikes flying around our roads, not a care for other road users or pedestrians.

The minimum realistic speed of a bike invovled in an accident is 30 mph, which being let go whether it wishes to go, is a lethal missile.

How on earth this can be put forward as a safe action, is laughable




You have a duty of care towards others, which you are clearly lacking.



If someone would of reversed into my parked bike, i simply would of asked for their Insurance details afterwards.

Would need to ask myself the question of why i parked my bike in the same place after the 1st incident though

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Steve

Damn, why did i not think the author was Horse.

May have something to do with the author using another name.

I just do not think sometimes

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Steve

Well, you can believe or not, but during the next few weeks after the crash I was using a Honda VFR800 with a digital speedo, and on several occasions I checked my speed to be 12-15mph at the crash site (of course, I only checked when the no other vehicles about).



Ah, after name-calling in the first reply, you're now trying to make a joke of it . . .

Still no alternative, then? Put up or shut up.

This is interesting. When I wrote 'in a full blown emergency' I was thinking of imminent impact. Brake steer is more effective than steer brake because of the ground covered, the probable impact speed, the increased ability to steer from a lower speed and the total thinking time. In a full blown emergency the instinctive reaction to plant the brake is a good one.

I love the idea of planning your escape (if any) while losing 20mph per second or so. Any thinking, observing or steering you might do in the early stage of an emergency might well increase the speed at impact.

I'm worried about very experienced 'system of car control' users when a full blown emergency takes place. Will they brake first or follow the system (position first or even information first)?

A quarter second of braking may well halve the fatality risk facing a driver at 60mph. See http://www.safespeed.org.uk/braking.html

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Eh

Compare your post's they are not on the same topic.



That is what body armour is for.



You stated your bike was parked, please explain



Alternative to what, are we talking general or about your 2 particular accidents, when your bike was parked and hit by other vehicles.

Now if you are talking general, avoid impact at all cost's, other than that hold on tight, their is nothing else to think about, you do not have time

If your impact speed is 60 mph, makes no differrance if that is a car or tarmac, each is a solid object that will not lesson the damage.

Your qualification for giving advice to bikers in an accident is based on 2 accidents when your bike was parked

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Steve

You would jump off a m/cycle at 12 to 15 mph, the final impact speed would not even throw you off the bike. Any armour that you should of been wearing would of taken the impact without a problem.

Digital speedo's are no more accurate than cable driven, they are just cheaper to fit, less components required.

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Steve

Whoa there! Are you seriously suggesting that a motorcycle boot would protect you from the impact of a ton or so of car trapping your leg against the side of your bike?

Sorry, but I'd jump - a car moving just at walking pace would crush your leg, boot or no boot, let alone at 12/15mph.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Have you tried?

I can assure you that just by standing up at or about the time of impact I was thrown over the handlebars, fairing, and screen of my bike, and landed on my back in the road.



Irrelevant.

I only posted that as I noted it at the time to give me an idea of what speed the crash happened - although you have stated that crashes can't happen at slow speeds . . .

And I've done it - there is time. But since you're so blinkered (Horse joke), you could die as a result . . .

Don't you think that you ought to reconsider you thoughts on this?

Time out guys....I am getting bored already...

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Speed camera policy Kills

Yep, you can do an amazing amount in a short space of time, as I described in an earlier post on this very thread...

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... 535&#14535

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

I had some idea of the surface I was going to land on but no idea if there were any other obstacles I might have collided with. The bottom line was that I figured that sliding to a stop with a possibility of hitting something was better than heading off road and definitely hitting something hard, like the tree the bike hit. And don't try and tell me that I should have stayed on the bike and tried to steer it as once off the road the bike was airborne because the side of the road dropped away.

I have been noticing that although you are pro this site and the objectives of this site you seem just about as inflexible as some of the C+ posters who simply refuse to even consider other views. Even when someone posts something I wholly disagree with I am at least prepared to consider their position if their post is written with conviction and experience.

It seems that you believe you are right at all times and anyone who disagrees is a numptie with no idea. Sorry, but no-one is right all of the time and IMO this thread is an example of where you are being completely unreasonable.

Maybe the jump option does not suit you but it certainly suits me and I'm sure many other bike riders out there. You are completely entitled to ride the way you want and we are entitled to ride the way we want, so try getting off your high horse (no pun intended) and allow others to voice their opinions without being attacked.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!