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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 21:46 
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Abercrombie wrote:
[...]

And you are not much better. You started the day saying selfishness is always good etc.
OK, you changed your tune after I beat it into you, but I've got a good supply of choice
quotes from earlier that show your previous mindset.

Neither of you have a consistent bone in your bodies.

You lying toad. I have never said or implied: "selfishness is always good". Please give one of your 'choice quotes' showing otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 22:02 
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Abercrombie wrote:
RobinXe wrote:
Lol, if you haven't the wherewithal to distinguish between driving and climate change then there's no hope for you!


Ah.. that clears it up. It's OK to be selfish, after all, just not when your driving! You ARE a piece of work, Robin. It's a belated victory, but still sweet.



Lol, if your victory is highlighting your own ignorance of the fact that a system with established best practices like driving, and a nebulous hypothesis about how some things may be harmful to the planet, are utterly incomparable then well done, nobody is in any doubt about that!

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 22:32 
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Thank god for the friend or foe function in the user control pannel.

Oh Robin my mate is learning how to fly around your manor now :D

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 22:33 
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ree.t wrote:
Thank god for the friend or foe function in the user control pannel.

Oh Robin my mate is learning how to fly around your manor now :D


My manor has changed now mate! Wish him all the best though, its a great and challenging profession!

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 23:40 
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"Why would you be selfish to millions of unborn children?"

A tad hyperbolic I would suggest. Can one person be selfish to one million poeple let alone millions?


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 07:56 
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RobinXe wrote:
a nebulous hypothesis


I'm tempted to run your nose in it, but I can't be bothered. So, pressing on, I wonder why
you'd be OK about selfish instincts in one domain, yet really touchy in another. This notion
of "well established best practices" seems fair, and you even list some "well established best
practices" for cutting carbon, although you don't intended to employ them if they
cause a slip in your standard of living, or put a cramp on your noisy and polluting little hobbies.

But all that is a red-herring. It's not the "well established best practices" that is the issue.
It's the consequences of failure. And, where the consequences could involve the "end of the
world as we know it", caution is the best choice, even if it means that you have to keep your
feet firmly on the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 08:08 
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fergl100 wrote:
"Why would you be selfish to millions of unborn children?"

Can one person be selfish to one million people ...?


As far as I know, these emissions spread everywhere, affect everyone and last for ages.
My impulse is to reduce it where possible. Robin's impulse would be to carry on as we are.
Yet he was advocating altruism before, where the stakes were far lower. What
do your instincts say to you about the state of the planet, fergl100? Is everything
green and pleasant down your end?


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 13:34 
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If we had any proof that reducing our impact would improve things then of course I would advocate it, but we don't. We don't even have any proof that we're making an impact, so why would we risk running in the wrong direction in an effort to avert the sky falling?

Incidentally my hobbies are not noisy and polluting, I enjoy squash, basketball, darts and acoustic guitar. I reckon they are carbon neutral and fairly inoffensive! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 22:26 
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There's been a bit of talk of the 'sky falling in' as a metaphor for climate change

Remember Chicken Licken!Young and innocent, laboured under the false belief that the sky was falling in, persuaded followers that it was true, all got eaten by a fox.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 01:32 
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Can anyone explain to me how a trace gas, (co2), that is about 0.03% of the atmosphere, has such a profound affect on the Earth's temperature?


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 03:09 
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whynot wrote:
Can anyone explain to me how a trace gas, (co2), that is about 0.03% of the atmosphere, has such a profound affect on the Earth's temperature?


It probably doesn't, it's what's about to happen that will. :( The trouble is people are still too busy with themselves to realise it.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 04:24 
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I always felt that the trouble with "Man made global warming" as opposed to "Global warming" of a Non Man made variety is the formers apparent link with certain interest groups about the availability of "cheap oil" into the future and the global political manouvres surrounding it.........The "Teachers Channel" 5 part series called; The Epic of Black Gold, (now a few years old) is so explosive that they don't show part 5 anymore!.....They call it a 5 part series and show only 4.
I saw part 5 once.....and it foretells the then future exactly..

It talked of OIL wars and the need for populations to use less oil and the ensueing civil turmoil that that would bring.

Still, you can always go along with the; "The Inconvenient Truth" route of a man who was rewarded for being robbed of the Presidency by being given a Nobel Prize for voicing over a film made by others uttering what is in reality a "Very Convenient Lie" thereby ensuring his continued silence..

ALL life on EARTH is made of CARBON

Therefore it ought to be good news...

They always talk of the ICE age but never of the BIG THAW and what caused it!

And all this happened BFWD's!

(Before Four Wheeled Drives) :)

ALL the recently led US led wars and threats however have been in areas of the world where oil is present.......P.S. Don't tell them that I told you.....But! There's a awful lot of oil at the other end of Afghanistan! Bloody long pipeline needed though.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 08:29 
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whynot wrote:
Can anyone explain to me how a trace gas, (co2), that is about 0.03% of the atmosphere, has such a profound affect on the Earth's temperature?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 09:41 
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The green house effect does not exist.
Work that one out.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 09:59 
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jomukuk wrote:
The green house effect does not exist. Work that one out.


Then a lot of gardeners are seriously deluded. I doubt that I could grow tomatoes without one.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:08 
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Quote:
They always talk of the ICE age but never of the BIG THAW and what caused it!


Ever read the book "ICE" by Sir Fred Hoyle (FRS etc etc etc)

It poses an interesting hypothesis.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:09 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
jomukuk wrote:
The green house effect does not exist. Work that one out.


Then a lot of gardeners are seriously deluded. I doubt that I could grow tomatoes without one.

What he means to say is that it is a misnomer in this case - and he is right. The layers of gasses don't actually act like a greenhouse does (although it is close). You need to understand the difference between convection and conduction.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 13:55 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
jomukuk wrote:
The green house effect does not exist. Work that one out.


Then a lot of gardeners are seriously deluded. I doubt that I could grow tomatoes without one.


Try leaving the door/window/s open and then reply.
The "greenhouse" effect is due to lack of air motion in a greenhouse.
If the infrared can get in through the glass then it can get out as well.

Quote:
The causes of climate change on a global scale involve processes of an astrophysical or geophysical nature beyond mankind's control. Already seen in the decadal hemisphere temperature charts shown earlier is the cooling influence of a volcanic eruption in the northern hemisphere (Mt Pinatubo, 1992). Tectonic effects, orbital changes and cosmic ray fluxes all play a part. The major astronomical and geological factors at work (including the Milankovitch cycles) are:


* SHORT-MEDIUM TERM
o 22 year magnetic sunspot cycle, 88 year Gleissberg cycle, and 206 year cycle of solar variability

* LONGER TERM
o 26,000 year cycle of the 'wobble' with precession of the equinoxes
o 40,000 year cycle of the +/- 1.5° change in the Earth's axial tilt
o 100,000 year cycle in the eccentricity of Earth's elliptical orbit
o 225,000,000 year cycle (and smaller sub-cycles) due to rotation of the Solar System about the galactic centre which takes the Earth up and down through the galactic plane, interstellar dust and cosmic ray fluxes change as a result
o Slowing of the Earth's rotation

* PLUS IMPORTANT SPORADIC EVENTS
o Volcanic activity, other tectonic activity, nearby supernovae, asteroidal impact, cometary impact


The sunspot cycle has been examined already in terms of the correlation with heavy daily winter rainfall and the equally strong correlation with uncorrupted temperature records. Evidence that solar factors are important now and in the recent past is as overwhelming as the lack of any evidence for a tangible effect due to mankind. The longer Gleissberg cycle, visible in the chart below, suggests that solar influences will remain high on the agenda for a while yet, up to about 2045. To know for sure will not involve consulting a computer model, but rather records of solar activity as they emerge and, most usefully, real data from satellites, balloons and accurate groundstation readings. In the diagram below, note the decline in solar activity up to the peak of the little ice age (1645-1715) when the Maunder Minimum involved an almost total lack of sunspot activity. Note also the rise in intensity of solar cycle maxima this century, coincident with very modest natural surface warming.


Once again:

Image

But the amount of control effected over people, by the deliberate lie about Man-made global warming, means that that lie will propagate down through the ages as truth, never mind what actually happens.
Note: Anthropogenic Global Warming has now slyly become Climate Change.
Or has nobody else noticed ?

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 14:35 
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Jomo. Where does your quote come from? The fact that the first line claims that the sunspot cycle is 22 years when every radio ham knows that it is 11 years makes me cautious about accepting its conclusions.

But the fact that there are historic variations in climate not associated with mankind doesn't mean that mankind can't change the climate. People used to get food poisening before we had Indian take-aways but that doesn't exonerate "The Bombay Palace" from causing my gippy tummy after I had one of their curries :D

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 14:46 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
But the fact that there are historic variations in climate not associated with mankind doesn't mean that mankind can't change the climate.

Absolutely, but it also doesn't mean we can stop the climate change either!

Slogans containing the sentiments "help fight/stop/prevent climate change" make me cringe.

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