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 Post subject: Breaking down in L3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 13:33 
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The Mad Cats alerted me to a very tragic incident on the M61 /A666/M60 interchange last week.

This is four lanes with two leading towards M60/M62 East and the outer lanes heading towards the Trafford Centre direction.

The old lady was intending to drive in that direction when she broke down.

Now this is a difficult one as nipping between the central reserves is not safe - but safer than remaining in the car and perhaps safer than trying to cross the cariageway - which is what the old lady was doing. I understand she had the presence of mind to put the hazard lights on her car.

:(


I do not know if the French law of wearing hi viz gilet would have helped her. I would have hoped that other drivers on seeing an obvious breakdown would slowed to crawl or at least stopped to help her to safety and called us out immediately as this would be priority as regards the danger and getting this car off the carriageway.

But suggestions/opinions from the board. . What would you do if unlucky enough to break down in outer lanes of motorway?


How would you react ? Would you be as aware as you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking down in L3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 13:43 
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Depends on nature of break down. I think I'd put my hazards on, dial 999 and stay put with seat belt on. Certainly seek the advice of the telephone operator, they might be able to see you and get some matrix signs lit up. I rekon you are safer in the car than running across a motorway, even if you get hit.

You might be able to move the car with the starter to the side of the carriageway.


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 Post subject: Re: Breaking down in L3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 14:40 
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There is usually room to dump the car in the space between the outer white line and the armco. (but not in our safety compromised "widened" motorways like the m42 and m27.) I would walk 100m along the armco away from my car (behind) before trying to cross the road.

If there were no outer refuge I would stop mid lane and leave the car there with front wheels pointing towards the armco. I might open the tailgate as well as hazards...

Crossing a motorway needs much more calculation than normal, I did it once to retrieve a wheel in lane 3 and it took far longer than I anticipated.

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking down in L3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 15:24 
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I'd get the car close to the armco and hop out and get between the barriers having left the hazards on. I'd then move up further away from the vehicle in case some numpty rams it. I'd leave the wheels pointing straight or even away from me! I'd call 999 from there and try and keep an eye on both lots of traffic and stay where I was. Much rather get to the otherside of the carriageway in a police range rover than dodging across like a suicidal chicken! Would do the same regardless of weather. Although if it was pissing down I'd be more tempted to stay in the car.... Have always got out of the car if broken down on a motorway even when we were on the hard shoulder.


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 Post subject: Re: Breaking down in L3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 16:45 
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On the M27 thee is no refuge. There is 0.5m between white line and concrete barrier another 0.5m and traffic in the othr direction....

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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 Post subject: Re: Breaking down in L3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 19:17 
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I too heard of this tragic incident,but as far as i am led to believe it was no break down. I heard a different story as to how it happened.
Stephen


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 Post subject: Re: Breaking down in L3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 22:53 
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First rule with any situation like this be you the driver of the vehicle which has broken down or someone trying to help Do Not Become A Casulty Yourself. Second rule Do Not Make Matters Worse ie cause another accident by your actions.

Driver of Broken down vehicle 1. Hazards on. 2. If you can get to centre reservation to do so probably safer than in car. 3. Request assistance phone 999 from mobile if carried. 4. Move away from vehicle down the central reservation towards oncoming traffic a short distance give slow down arm signal but do not wave arm in such a way as to get it hit by approaching traffic. 5. Follow any instructions given by motorway control wait rescue / assistance and Do Not Panic, Remain calm.

Occupant / Driver of any vehicle trying to assist. 1. Hazards on to warn vehicles behind. 2. Get on to hard shoulder but not exatly opposite incident as other vehicles may need hard shoulder as they swerve to avoid other vehicles also trying to avoid broken down vehicle. 3. Use emergency phone to request assistance at the incident rather a than mobile as it may pin point the exact location quicker. 4. Do not hang up unless told to do so provide commentry as incident develops / further information as required.


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 Post subject: Re: Breaking down in L3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 22:23 
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http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/search/4 ... _motorway/
Quote:
Pensioner dies after being hit by car on motorway
7:45pm Thursday 29th January 2009

By Cherry Thomas »

A PENSIONER was killed after being hit by a car on a motorway today.

Police believe the 82-year-old woman's car may have broken down on the southbound carriageway of the M61 and she was struck by another vehicle when she got out.

She was taken to Hope Hospital with multiple injuries but died a short time later.

Motorists faced traffic chaos with closures in place on the motorway and the A666 throughout the afternoon and evening.

The closures caused heavy congestion on the roads well into the evening.




Stephen./ per sisters.. -hit in the 4 lane section.. where L1/L2 go towards Leeds and L3/4 merge with M60 towards Trafford Centre/airport.

I cannot see an 82 year old just deciding to stop willy nilly here. I think she broke down and did what she thought to be correct under the circumstances to be fair to her.

I feel so sorry for her and my pals who tried to save her.. and her relatives and pals as well as the driver of the car who hit her in all innocence here.

Nasty accident and all involved as relatives hurt immensely. I think a genuine accident and hope all come to terms and a future on that basis.

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking down in L3
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 00:00 
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I would assume that the press report was an initial holding report from police in the early stages of the investigation. As always if you dont tell the press something they will make it up.
The Crash on The Crescent a couple of weeks ago,practically as I arrived on scene and was literally speaking to witnesse's the press with cameras had arrived on scene stood next to me listening to what I was being told. As I say dont believe everything you read in the papers,it will all come out in the wash soon enough no doubt.
Stephen


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 Post subject: Re: Breaking down in L3
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 00:34 
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Stephen wrote:
I would assume that the press report was an initial holding report from police in the early stages of the investigation. As always if you dont tell the press something they will make it up.
The Crash on The Crescent a couple of weeks ago,practically as I arrived on scene and was literally speaking to witnesse's the press with cameras had arrived on scene stood next to me listening to what I was being told. As I say dont believe everything you read in the papers,it will all come out in the wash soon enough no doubt.
Stephen



But there was a follow up in the next day's press and I happened to be at Hope on Thursday when it happened. I was on "lurgy business".. but know the A&E chap in charge. She died of multiple injuries which were in keeping with being struck by a car. Police told the medic in charge they thought she had broken down apparently.

I was held up as my route homewards was one huge traffic jam because of the total closure of the M61 in each direction. I would have headed up the M602 .. to take M61 to M6 and homewards. As it happened . stopped off at my sister's house for meal and chatter before heading home.. and Wildy .. waited up for me.. would not go to bed till I got home safely ./. Bless her. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking down in L3
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:30 
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Stephen wrote:
I too heard of this tragic incident,but as far as i am led to believe it was no break down. I heard a different story as to how it happened.


Can we be sure that all of the cars in the fast lanes were travelling within the speed limit? If some were not, should it be "manslaughter"?


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 Post subject: Re: Breaking down in L3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 22:30 
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"FAST LANES"....what are these? Surely you mean overtaking lanes?

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking down in L3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 14:39 
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I have been in vehicles that have broken down on the motorway four times, twice as the driver.

The King lead came loose from the distributor and I had to stop on the hard shoulder, it was quite though so was able to coast to within a yards of an emergency phone without being passed.

The gearbox output bearing lunched itself pouring oil onto the clutch while on the outside lane. I completed the overtake, indicated over to the left and coasted to and most of the way up the next off ramp about half a mile away. Again traffic was light and the exit had two lanes with a hard shoulder, hazards kept the couple of cars that passed well out of the way.

I was a passenger in a small van that had a rear left blowout at about 70mph in the middle lane, the driver managed to keep control and safely pull off onto the hard shoulder. It was pretty busy, M6 near north of Birmingham iirc, we put the spare on timing the wheel off time for the five second or so gap between the lorries.

Same driver several years had the front driver side deflate in 5 - 10 seconds, outside lane on a busy M25, by the time we reached the hard shoulder the tire had started to break up with several holes over an inch long. There was an exit starting about a hundred yards away so we got back in the car and drove off the motorway before changing the wheel.

Now I am not trying to say I/we did the safest thing after getting to the hard shoulder, but there was no real problem reaching it. Though in the third case some pretty impressive van control was needed to keep the thing in a straight line as the tyre went.

What kind of faults can slow a car so quickly as to leave it stranded in the traffic? Seized engine, gearbox, differential, brakes or wheel bearing possibly? Is engine or aerodynamic braking sufficient to prevent a safe move over to the hard shoulder if traffic is dense enough?

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking down in L3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 16:20 
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graball wrote:
"FAST LANES"....what are these? Surely you mean overtaking lanes?


No, it's called "The Fast Lane" - surely you must have heard the song : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_in_the_Fast_Lane

And we don't take any of that "political correctness" around here, either.

PS: perhaps I was a bit hasty there. Is this renaming of the FAST LANE some kind of safety idea?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 22:31 
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http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/search/4 ... irections/


UPDATE!


I post as an update which contradicts the initial press reports I think the original OP as regards how to react if broken down in L3 still valid for discussion. The update has a different slant. I added to this thread. If mods wish to split . then zero probs.

Bolton News wrote:
Pensioner killed on motorway had stopped to ask for directions
8:19am Wednesday 17th June 2009



AN 82-year-old woman was knocked down and killed after stopping her car on the M61 to ask for directions, an inquest heard.

Oliva Nhad been out to buy a new a television on January 29, Bolton Coroner’s Court was told.

But the journey ended in tragedy when the pensioner, of Towncroft Lane, Heaton, got lost and stopped to ask for help from two men stopped on the hard shoulder.

She got out of her silver Ford Ka, which she parked close to the central reservation, and walked around to the back of her car.

The two men, who had broken down and were waiting for a recovery vehicle shouted to Mrs N to stay where she was.

But to their horror, she started to walk across the southbound carriageway and into the path of John B, from Blackburn, who was driving himself and his wife to Manchester in their Renault Laguna.

Mr B, who estimated he was travelling between 60 and 70 miles per hour, said: “All of a sudden, she set off, trying to run, and she came into the lane I was in.

“I knew the second I put my foot on the brake that I was going to hit her. There was no chance. I did everything I could to avoid that collision.”

The incident happened between Junctions One and Two, in the four-lane section of the M61 near Salford.

In a statement read to the court, Mrs N’s daughter, Janet F, said her mother was proud and independent and was an experienced driver but never drove on the motorways.

A police investigation found no evidence that Mr B had committed any offences.

The inquest heard Mrs N died from multiple injuries. Bolton’s deputy coroner, Alan W, recorded a verdict of accidental death.

steven.thompson@the boltonnews.co.uk


I have removed names .. I would expect all to refer as Mrs N/Mr B etc. as mark of respect to all as this is not posted to condemn anyone . but to learn.

It raises umpteen questions ..age. competence. etc. all the same.

AT first reports - woman's car had broken down. This is one debate in itself as regards what to do if you break down in L3.


As it turned out . she appeared to be confused as a result of "never using motorways" per her "nearest and dearest" which leads down a different road of discussion as regards age on the one hand and lack of experience on another finger point.

:( :(

A truly awful and sad story.


Hell this family has a lot of "elderly feisties". We hope they all use the common sense genes they have dedicated their lives to bequeathing to us.. and hand in licences when they realise "past it" and the real seniors in the family have

My own wife has been advised not to drive still, In herself - she feels OK .. but then? .. the odd very sharp pain which makes her draw in her breath and shake visibly to us all? She has very sensibly decided to wait until this subsides to "almost nothing" and I know it's a tantalising torture for her at this current stage in her recovery.


I'm saying we have to be aware of ourselves all the time. I think that when we reach age 75 onwards - we have to be aware of "spasmodic confusion as we head towards our dreaded/personal nightmare destiny of potential senilty". My sister looks after our maiden aunt. This lady appears lucid 90% of the time. - but my sister tells me of some scares which has made her persuade the old love to surrender her licence.

I do not know what to suggest for the older driver.. other than annual tests once above age 75 years as default start. :popcorn:

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Smilies are contagious
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It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
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But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


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