Safe Speed Forums

Jomukuk,

there is no class of numpty drivers. For one thing, everybody is a numpty sometimes - who's perfect after all? And secondly, when we see a numpty, is it real? Or is it a false numpty!?? I mean, it's only human to blame someone else when we get things wrong. Half the time, when we think "numpty", we're responding to our own mistakes aren't we? And we certainly make enough of them, eh! So, look, there's no gang of numpties out there. It's just a joke thread, so let's have a laugh.

I was thinking about this yesterday ( I really should get out more)

Anyway, like him or loath him Jamie Oliver has a point about food. He wants people to eat better, cook for themselves and be healthier. Too many people just eat because it is the only way to fuel themselves and don't worry about what they are fueling themselves with. And so to driving. Too many people just view driving as a means of getting from A to B and don't take an interest in what they are doing, they just go around in autopilot, not really thinking. I'm guilty of it at times as much as the next person is. If people take a little more care in their driving we should see less crashes, less cost to our selves and less congestion.

About half of us die from heart attacks and other things like that, but 1 in 50 from car wrecks. If there is any money to be spent, they'll put it towards health, not driving advice.

We're getting somewhere here. If we are willing to learn from our near misses (which I always have been), we're on the righteous path away from motoring numptyism towards a skilled Nirvana. Hallelujah!

Then it seems to me that there is only one difference between a numpty and a non-numpty.

A non-numpty knows that he could easily turn into a numpty at any moment unless he watches out. Because he knows that, he isn't a numpty. Whereas a numpty doesn't know he could do something numtyish, so he doesn't watch out. That makes him a numpty.

So, in short, you can only be a numpty if you don't know you're a numpty. And if you do know you're a numpty, you're not one! It's dead easy now...

PS: this explains why proud/aggressive drivers aren't numpties. They know they are being stupid already!

I'm not so sure you can.

I'm waiting to turn out of a side turning onto a road. I only have a certain amount of road visible to me. All the indicators to me are that this is probably a 30mph area. A driver that thinks they are safe and experienced could be going at any speed between 20mph and 80mph*. So my judgement of the time I have to make the manoeuvre varied by a factor of four.

Now you may say that the experienced and safe driver would be doing between 20 and 30. However most drivers think that they are competent, safe and experienced.


* You could set this at 60mph, we all have seen people that, without controls, will drive at that speed in a 30. It is still a 3x variance in reaction time.

You predicted exactly what I would say: a fast & competent driver would not be going too fast past a side turning with waiting traffic, in case the waiting traffic proved to be a pulling-out-without-looking numpty.

As discussed above, any road user who thinks they have nothing else to learn is probably a numpty anyway.

And all driver education already includes obeying speed limits and the general rules of the road anyway, including the advanced courses which many including myself have recommended.

I don't believe this campaign has ever said "you choose" should be its line on speed limits, and that certainly isn't my view. I do not oppose speed limits as such, nor do I believe that they should never, or virtually never, be enforced. However, I do believe that in recent years excessive emphasis has been placed on strict speed limit compliance as a road safety tool, which has proved to be at best ineffective, at worst counter-productive.

Any enforcement of any law must pass a twin test of:

(a) is it in the public interest in terms of its overall objectives, and
(b) is it proportionate to the gravity of the the offence being committed

I believe the scale and indiscriminate nature of current speed limit enforcement policy fails on both counts. Just because you can enforce a law doesn't mean that you should in all cases. As former US Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara famously said, "Measure what is important, don't make important what you can measure". Replace "measure" with "enforce" and that applies equally to current traffic enforcement. I have no problem with the age of consent being 16 - but I don't think it would be in the public interest to devote huge amounts of resources to indentifying 16-year-old boys sleeping with 15-year-old girls and then hauling them before the courts.

It is also important that the laws being enforced are generally viewed as reasonable by those subjected to them, which in the case of speed limits is more than more not the case. To quote the Arizona Department of Transportation in their policy document on speed limits, "The normally careful and competent actions of a reasonable individual should be considered legal." Sadly that is increasingly not the case on Britain's roads today. Laws unworthy of respect will not be respected.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

No - a pulling-out because the time gap in the distance they can see is enough if the driver coming round the corner is doing 30. A driver thinking that the person is pulling out without looking when there is nothing to see is showing up the "me" attitude of that driver.

We've agreed that a huge proportion of drivers are numpties.
We complain that enforcement and majoring on speed is worng.

What do you think the numpties hear and how do you think they react? They'll hear "Speed cameras are bad" "Fines are a tax on motorists" which they will translate into "it's OK and safe to speed. SafeSpeed says so"

You guys know that this is not the case, but we've already established that you guys are in a pretty small minority of UK drivers...

Personally I would say a significant minority, but nowhere near a majority.


That has never been the message of Safe Speed. It has been portrayed as such by those seeking to discredit it, but having heard Paul Smith speak many times on the radio I do not believe that is the conclusion the ordinary driver in the street would have reached about his message.

Also I think the average person who feels a bit uneasy about speed cameras and tries to think more deeply about the issue will not come to the conclusion that he doesn't like them because he wants to drive pedal-to-the-metal everywhere, but because they are arbitrary and indiscriminate, often penalising driving that is not inherently risky while ignoring genuinely dangerous driving that happens to take place elsewhere.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Now - you have to look at these campaign quotes and think about how other people see them. Not you.

Speed cameras are wrong. So speeding must be OK - that's what they hear. If the campaign had put forward sensible suggestions like further training or retesting etc. and indicated that this would come with a cost to the ordinary driver then it might have been a different campaign. There are, after all, a lot of numpties out there.

If someone pulls out on me before they can even see me, I am unlikely to be particularly vexed.

Unless of course I have been aware of them for some time, in which case they may well be a numpty.

By their very nature, numpties are NOT "speeders" they very rarely go at, let alone above the speed limit so they are unlikely to start speeding just because someone gives them the message that speed cameras are wrong.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Actually I'm not so sure this is a hard and fast rule.

More than half the people I know with points could actually fall into the numpty category and have been done for fairly minor infractions.

Fast/competent drivers are often safer from automated enforcement, than unobservant numpties.

Example 1. The most competent driver in my team has no points, the worst (who retired last year after four low speed accidents in three years) had six.

Example 2. my ex-manager who got done three times in short order:

1. A gatso on a familiar road that she forgot was there
2. A camera van in a layby that she didn't notice
3. A gatso on a familiar road after her manager "had just shouted at her"

All for only just over the ACPO threshold on easy-to-speed roads.

Just to clarify, neither of the ladies with points above could be decribed as fast drivers, both were 40-everywhere numpties, who got done in 30 limits.

Can't believe no-one has Googled it yet

I hope some of the naughty words they use are acceptable here? It seems the word itself defines the person and whatever they're doing makes them a numpty in that field if the cap fits: -

http://numpty.info/

"Numpty (numptie / numbty)

What is a numpty? Definition, Euphemisms and Alternatives

Deriving most probably from a combination of an abbreviation of the word numb (meaning deprived of feeling), numskull or numbskull (meaning stupid person) with the name 'Humpty Dumpty' - the nursery rhyme character who in his foolishness fell off the wall - not good for someone made of eggshell!

In other words a numpty is a person who is, by their own actions or statements, demonstrably preoccupied, forgetful, naiive or stupid in some regard. It is perfectly possible to be highly skilled or educated to a greater degree yet a complete numpty when it comes to certain aspects of one's life.

The term is at the lesser end of insults and may generally be used amongst friends without causing too great an offence, especially if the recipient of the term has already shown the deservedness of its attribution.

A Numpty may otherwise be known as a Fuckwit - Idiot - Idjeet (Scottish) - Halfwit - Numbskull - Dumbass - Moron - Bozo - Twit - Dumbfuck - Spaceman

Almost a numpty? Not quite but they are close relatives and their behaviour or lack of appreciation / understanding of a given question or situation may to some degree display numpty heritage and influences - Buffoon - Jackass - Clown

Alternative Spellings
Whilst the most common spelling is undoubtedly that of 'numpty' variants do exist, notably 'numptie' (probably deriving from the popular Dutch spelling of Humptie Dumptie) and 'numbty' (which just shifts the balance of the word combination ever so slightly, preserving the b from the word numb, instead of taking the p from humpty)

Semantics - Examples of usage - Numpty in language
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall / The big old Numpty had a great fall / All the king's horses and all the king's men / Couldn't put that fuckwit back together again!

Are you a numpty? Numpty Quiz Questions
Internet Numpty - one who actually believes the 419 scam - otherwise known as a gullible and greedy numpty, resulting in a large exodus of cash from their bank account

Family Numpty - one who forgets a reasonably close relative's birthday, with various results dependent upon the age and mental stability of the one who has been forgotten

Driving Numpty - one who spasmodically changes their mind and lane repeatedly when approaching a roundabout, resulting in hasty defensive action from those alongside or following

Cookery Numpty - one who leaves the food in the oven for twice as long as they should, thus reducing it to inedible goo and causing a hasty visit to the takeaway

Drinking Numpty - one who manages to completely miss their mouth, resulting in wasted liquid and a giveaway stain down the front of their clothing

Smoking Numpty - one who manages to attempt to light up the wrong end of a cigarette, resulting in a wasted tab and aura of burnt filter"

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Actually these ARE typical numpty traits. They travel EVERYWHERE at 40 MPH, holding up queues of traffic on NSL roads then when they hit a town or village continue at exactly the same speed. These too can become "aggresive" numpties who flash at you if you manage to overtake them. I had one on a roundabout today, happily plodding along at 30MPH til we came to a roundabout then because I got into the right hand lane with a chance of getting past her she revved the nuts off her car to try and stop me getting past her, then after the roundabout when I did get past her she dropped back to her "non aggressive" numpty mode and carried on at 30MPH.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I think their cars spring forward at 40 the moment they release the parking brake.

In my scenario if you have been aware of them for some time then you are a numpty! A numpty who can see round corners

(Actually I'm surprised that I haven't seen the Superman/Knightrider driver who can see round corners mentioned yet!)

Sorry, you're a numpty if someone whos presence you are well aware of pulls out on you without realising you are there?

Yes you do get numpties that sit and wait at a junction until they can see the whites of your eyes before entering the road that you are on, then continue to plod along at 20mph unaware that your emergency "pull up" resulted in your shopping flying onto the floor.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.