Safe Speed Forums

When all's said and done there is nothing to prove that White vans INJURE more cyclists than black cars, so what's the point in the article....none!!! It's like saying that in a zoo you are closer to the aligators than the lions by 4 inches...so what?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

And, speaking as a cyclist, a clearance of over four feet is more than ample at city speeds.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

So do think that's a good thing or not?

Actually just thought...



Given that failing to look properly (I think we can agree there's a primo numpty trait) is the top-ranking factor in accidents, causing 35% of them, you are probably far more likely to be killed by a numpty.

Assuming that in abercrombie-world, proud/arrogant = breaks the speed limit, you're far safer with a form of driver behaviour that only causes 6%!

I'm happy with four feet or more myself. But the measurement was an average. If some drivers gave 8 feet, then perhaps some gave none at all. That can't be right, or he wouldn't have been able to write it up.

I think it's a good sign. Once you had to watch it all the time, but now it's become so safe you don't have to care as much. I think that's right, isn't it? People take less care the safer it gets?

Addition: I should have said "People take less care the safer for them that it gets..."

For all we know, any of us could be numpties, because another primo numpty trait is that they don't know they are numpties, do they?

Look, fellows, I'm trying to present the case here for numptyism. I know it's not ideal, but there are a bunch of bad drivers on the other side of the spectrum who are just as bad or worse. Numtyism is lamentable, of course, but at least (a) they can't help it (b) it's unintentional and (c) they aren't in a rush. Unless someone invents a numpty detector, we have to drive to account for their nonsense, and it's easier to do that if they are nice, unhurried numpties. There is nothing worse than an aggressive numpty is a hurry.

PS: can you have "aggressive numptys"?

B Cyclist

B Cyclist states here that by our reckoning of a typical numpty driver that about 1/3 of the driving population could be numpties and given that 37% of accidents are caused by poor observation (which seems to tally with the amount of numpties on the road), maybe this is a good case to remove numpties from the road and cut accidents by 37% at a stroke. Maybe not "remove" numpties but re-educate them to be better drivers.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Sorry for joining this thread a little late and have not read it all. But I have to take exception to Graballs asertion that 1/3 (33%) of drivers are numpties!
A police officer once told me that (I may be wrong on the exact percentages) 2% of accidents were caused by drunk drivers, 3% by speeding drivers and the remaining 95% by slow, sober drivers, which I assume is 95% numpty drivers!
Hence I reduce my likelihood of an accident by constant speeding and being drunk when ever possible to stay in the 5%ers (lol)

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Well, good luck with that Lucy W. But please let us know when you are passing through, so that we can avoid you.

So, what constitutes a Numpty driver?

1. I was thinking back over my driving career, and I can hardly think of any near-misses involving competent but speedy drivers. They've almost always involved a numpty, because you can predict what the competent but fast drivers are going to do, i.e. go fast competently, whereas it's anyone's guess what a numpty will do next.

2. Numpty detector. As discussed above I believe it's some kind of traffic policeman.

3. Aggressive numpties. I'm not sure, but if they exist they drive Zafiras. Can we think of any aggressive numptry traits?

I guess number one would be stopping in lane 2, 800 yards before the lanes merge at roadworks to stop anyone "jumping the queue".

Or is that a passive-aggressive numpty? Can you simultaneously be aggressive and oblivious (a defining numpty trait)? I'm becoming less convinced as I write.

The answer to the question appears to be that everyone is a numpty driver at some point. Some more so than others.

I shouldn't be surprised given the make-up of posters on here, that having the wrong lights on, not indicating, being in the wrong lane and so on and so on are all numpty traits but slamming on the brakes for a speed camera isn't. Neither is driving over the speed limit. Nor missing road signs. Despite the fact that SafeSpeed agrees with speed limits!

The big problem highlighted here is that in the main you are (or think you are) good, safe and experienced drivers. You feel that the way traffic is controlled at the moment is wrong and you should be given more freedom to decide how you drive.

However you think a large proportion of other drivers are not good, safe and experienced. How are these people going to react to having more freedom to decide how they drive?

How to deal with it? Should they be taken off the roads? Well, clearly that would be unacceptable publicly because they have had the right for so long, they (apparently) pay through the nose for it, and I'm sure if you asked them they'd say that they were good, safe and experienced drivers and it was everyone else that was a numpty.

Should they be educated? Well, yes - I think this is the answer. Education in two ways: firstly how to drive properly - as a good, safe, experienced driver would and secondly to obey the existing laws and rules of the road. If you want them to choose the right lane or have their fog lights off in the rain you also have to get them to obey road sings and speed limits. I don't think picking one aspect of driving and saying "you choose" whilst picking another and saying "you don't choose on this one" is a good approach.

If you saw Fifth Gear last night you would have seen one of the presenters failing his (pretend) driving test due to typical numpty behaviour such as poor observation and poor positioning. He exceeded the speed limit several times because he failed to see the 20mph signs.

B Cyclist: you've got it the wrong way round, but you're on the right track now...

Numpty drivers are the ones who think they are perfectly good enough for a task that they consider as demanding as "going to the hardware store to buy some nails". I bet if you told the average numpty they could do with more training they'd be horrified.

My view of my own driving (and I think this is shared by a lot of other Safespeed members, based on previous discussions) is that it is never good enough and must be constantly worked on.

Where we differ is on whether driving round in a trance is a greater sin than doing 71 in a 70 limit.

However, we both agree that more education is the answer. My view (which is not widely shared) is that we should all take a refresher driving test every ten years or so.

That, and real traffic police spotting the problem drivers who just don't care about driving well.

What's stopping you from paying someone to examine you? You say it's right, but do you do it? Or do you want to force people to pay out, eh?

Johny the boy I agree entirely with tests every few years and traffic police on roundabouts could pull over many numpties because poor lane discipline and lack of signals/observation is easy to spot, especially on roundabouts.If the government abondanded it's stupid waste of money on "reduced speed limits and cameras" which are NOT working and spent the money on more examiners and traffic police then we would see better driving standards.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Numpty drivers are those that fail to recognise that cyclists are an accident waiting to happen.
Consequently, they fail to get out of the way of the idiots.
I treat ALL cyclists as suicidal head-cases. Pedestrians qualify as same, largely because they are oblivious to the world outside of their mobile phone, or ipod.
To date, in spite of frequent attempts to kill themselves by walking/cycling in front/side/rear of me, they have failed to be killed.
Whether that is a good thing (or not) time (alone) will tell.
Now for the next question: What qualities does a numpty cyclist, and pedestrian, display ?
If indeed they have any qualities at all..............................

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

It could be bad guesswork that is making you believe this. Look, it's very simple.

You could achieve your conclusion like this: when you guess well, you call the other drivers "competent". But when you screw up the "predictions", you blame the other road user, and call him a numpty!! That's what people do. But it's our own fault - assumption is the mother of all screw ups, including our own.

In the words of Our Lord, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone!