Safe Speed Forums

I would classify a 'Numpty Driver' as being 'Passively Incompetant' as opposed to the 'Active Incompetance' displayed by your stereotypical BoyRacer/Rep/White Van Man.

I'm sure theres a simple four box model for this.

Mr "white-van" man has less accidents than Mr "average-once-a-week-driver" man.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

That stat is totally blown when you normalise the figures for m-way miles (which would otherwise favorably skew the delivery boys' numbers). Basically, the vans crash like hell in towns, but avoid crashes on the long hauls.

I just wonder why the average highways dept is keen to pass the work to another dept, which is always keen to tell you it isn't their responsibility anyway and you need to talk to borough/county/mid-county/highways-agency/DfT.
I also wonder why we have so many different depts doing the same work, many times, with many people, badly ?
The same way I have wondered for years why, when we now have hospitals as trusts and self managing, we have more and more people working in local health authorities...who also are not responsible for anything.....
The same way way when I phone the council legal dept to report another lad of caravans are parked in a council carpark, after someone else has cut the barriers down, I always get Cynthia [name withheld to avoid legal action] at corporate affairs....who then says I need to talk to "gipsy liason officer" (who is about 20 stone and has earrings the size of dinner plates) who says they have to go through set-in-stone routines.....taking months...to remove them....after which the carpark has 20 tonnes of decomposing rubbish and a tonne of human faeces there.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Abercrombie

I think if you worked out the Accident/ km driven for white van man against ordinary driver then the white van man would be less dangerous. Maybe white van man has more accidents in towns because this is where the "numpties" tend to lurk more than on motorways, which during the average day cater more for "professional" drivers.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I was considering this aspect of the new laws:



Which neatly bypasses the recent referendum defeat in Manchester......

"NEW" organisations.
More QANGOs', more "trusts", more "agencies"
More public servants, doing what they do best. Nothing, and badly.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Do you have any reference for these figures? I would have thought plenty of white vans were driving around towns delivering stuff to premises and transporting tradesmen, so the relative proportions of urban and motorway driving would be little different from private cars.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Jomukuk


I would think that the Taxpayer's Alliance would give a better insight into it than Driver's Alliance.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Probably they would. But I have no taste for continuous googling anymore.
Trying to retrieve information from government departments is thankless.....many references to DfT documents come back blank, searching the gov sites retrieves many thousands of pages of references for pages that include practically every word you searched for....Referencing research work done by univs is also coming back blank now....
I would like to conclude that gov sites are a mess, but I think the reality is more serious than that.
Gov sites are arranged and managed to obstruct many searches.
But, I could be paranoid.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

We know that twenty times more accidents happen off the m-ways than on-them. So we can deduce that the white van guys avoid crashes on the long hauls. So they have to get their average up somewhere, don't they? Take the m-way out of it, and add this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lists.html

and you can start to see a picture emerging. Great picture of a yob, eh?

I tell you what, you read the figures:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/accidents/casualtiesgbar/roadcasualtiesgreatbritain2005
Download the pdf...
5 inches means danger, I can feel a song coming along.................
Maybe, just maybe, or probably: Mr BlackCarMan cannot tell distance from ?
So far, a total of three damaged window mirrors in a year. Damaged by cyclists who push them out of their way to get past in traffic.....except mine don't swing back like most cars.
And I'M a danger ?
They don't need cars, trucks, buses or vans.....they're a danger to themselves....MORE cyclists are injured running into stationary objects than injured by vehicles.....
And how many are killed cycling up the inside of trucks ?
How bright do you need to be to ride a bike ?

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

But this is University research and we have repeated been assured on these forums that University research is biased in favour of the eco-facist-corporate-Nazi agenda. [/sarcasm]

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Biased in favour of those who paid for it.
A bit (lot) like the survey that proved that most people considered speeding to be the most antisocial behaviour.
Question base:

Which do you consider most antisocial out of the below.
1. Calling elderly people grey haired
2. Considering politicians to be lying morons
3. Going to work on a bus or egg.
4. Mugging old ladies in the high street.
5. Speeding along in a vehicle and killing children, old people, dogs, cats and then crashing into a school bus and running off.

Answer: Speeding is considered to be most antisocial.
I'd like to see the question base for the actual survey.....you go find it.....I can't.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Well, I'm sorry for getting you going. It looks like you're one of the good guys. Keep it up.

The Daily Mail Article doesn't take into consideration the following:

White vans are at least 4 inches wider than black cars so to stay in the lane without hitting oncoming traffic they may need that extra 4 inches. They can probably better judge the width of their van than the average numpty driver (i've seen countless women fail to overtake a parked bus because they think the gap is too narrow for them). This survey does not compare accidents like for like and just because they are 4 inches closer doesn ot mean they are any more likely to hit the cyclist. 4 inches in a ratio of over four feet is no percentage at all.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

That depends on whether it's the last 4 inches!

Look, how come so many people suck up to these van drivers? They ain't no angels, you know.

Except jomukuk. He's OK...

what relevance is black cars and what was the overall car average? All that proves is black cars are more carefull, possibly because they're more likely to be privately owned. Van drivers do more miles so more experienced, and are more likely to be men (better spatial awareness) so can probably judge the distance better and don't over compensate.

And, like graball says, white van man was only 7% closer, and with an average of 4 feet inbetween- how much space do you require? cyclists over/undertake me 2 inches away when it suits, so a complaint of a 4 feet average is a bit rich.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

Admitedly there are good and bad white van drivers (I've cursed a couple today myself) but just like there are good and bad bus, lorry, car,train drivers but on the whole you have to remember they ARE professionals, in the main and do it either as a living or part of their business so do have some sort of experience, unlike the little old ladies who tootle down the shop once a week. I would prefer to be on a busy road surrounded by wv men than numpties.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

It's in the story. There are a similar number to white vans.



or tired?



Or have anger management issues?



That depends on the standard deviation. It's significant in a gaussian distribution. The last 4 inches on the left hand tail are the ones kill people!

I would rather be surrounded by young women driving red sports cars and waving happily at me on the way to the sands... even if they were numpties!