Safe Speed Forums

Of course I do, as I have previously answered, just as I accept that speed rarely kills.


Which implies that you believe that the driver is always at fault, which they are not. So you imply that an innocent motorist should lose their licence?


I have implied nothing of the sort.

devastation can occur at any speed with a heavy steel box!

The risk increases with speed.being hit at 60mph is massively more lilkely to kill you than being hit at 30mph, whether you're being hit as a ped or as a fellow driver. It's quite simple.



Children should be allowed to wander into the road without fear of death.

The reason is that the pedestrian still has total right of way - note that please, all the twats who are going on about sprogs walking in the road - on any road type short of a dual carriageway is really simple: You're driving an armoured, ton-weight tank, and they're not. Grow up and look to your own responsibilities. Jaywalking is an American law. We don't have it. The 30mph signs? That means 'people live here.' Yep, LIVE - as per the full dictionary definition. If you're rushing through my habitat, you better be ready to stop if my child or my cat walks out in front of you. We are NOT just an inconvenient slowdown along your daily trip down the asphalt.


Saying that children are entirely responsible for being injured by a vehicle if they step out in front of it is kind of missing the point that THEY'RE CHILDREN. They haven't got as good an awareness of their surroundings as adults do because they haven't had as much experience. It's up to adults, particularly those travelling at speeds that can cause serious injury or death, to be ready to respond to other people's mistakes.

Yes - teach the children awareness, but don't abdicate your own responsibility to make allowances for the inevitability of other people's mistakes. Driving at the limit of one's ability will inevitably lead to accidents. I remember running into the road once when I was about 4 - I know that I caused a car to brake, but I don't know how close it got. (I was running away from a neighbour whom I found a bit scary).

So what does that say about an adult that allows afour year old to wander in the road unsupervised?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Could you please show me where the DFT reasearch states accidents increased in 30mph zones?

Sixth time.

I thought that you were a genuine poster until you said:


And I will answer for the 6th time, although you have changed the question from 20 to 30mph, read the link that you posted. I am not going to show you the maths, if you can't do it, ask someone else.

ROSPA 2005 all accidents -Rural 104,000 Urban-164,000

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

read the link that you posted.

I have.

It says:

Research
The Transport Research Laboratory (TRL) reviewed results from 250 zones in England, Wales and Scotland. The outcome is described in TRL Report 215 - "Review of Traffic Calming Schemes in 20 mph zones". The main findings indicated that average speeds reduced by 9 mph, annual accident frequency fell by 60%, the overall reduction in child accidents was 67%, and there was an overall reduction in accidents to cyclists of 29%. Traffic flow in the zones was reduced by 27%, but flows on the surrounding boundary roads increased by 12%. There was generally little accident migration to surrounding roads.


End quote.

Now, you claim the evidence if fact says something quite different.


Where?

If, as you are saying, we shouldn't blame the children for wandering in the roads at 4 years old, then what should we do about the adults that allow them to?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

"Could you please show me where the DFT reasearch states accidents increased in 30mph zones?"



ROSPA 2005 all accidents -Rural 104,000 Urban-164,000

These stats can be found on the rospa website

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

This is why you don't understand, I do not say it says something different at all. What I am saying is that this is spun to appear favourably.

I have said before, I will not do the maths for you, but here is a brief example:


This is made to sound like the traffic was not displaced, however, it is saying that the traffic was indeed displaced. Consider the scenario of a boundary road that has a daily flow of 200 cars, and a zone with a daily flow of 100 cars. For example after calming we find that flow in the zone is now 75 cars a 25% reduction, but the boundary now has a flow of 225 cars, an increase of 12.5%. Without the numbers the percentages would sound good. By the way I deliberatley picked those figures because they are close to those given in the report.

Now apply that same logic to all the other claims, and see how it reads afterwards.

Odin, you stated:

I believe that in all the trial areas that you mention, casualties were reduced slightly, but accident frequency went up alarmingly.


Politely, what is your evidence for this claim that accidents rose. It's not in the FT link, the research indicates the exact opposite- that accidents fell.

You claimed accidents rose "alarmingly".

What's your evidence please, and a link to the part of the report that says anything to justify your claim.

This is made to sound like the traffic was not displaced

Not to me, it's stating as fact that displacement of traffic took place, but this is not what you claimed, you claimed accidents increased alarmingly.

You're a liar.

Due to your ad hominem attack this conversation is over. If you can't make your case without resorting to name calling, perhaps you should consider the strength of your argument?

He still hasn't answered my question about the responsibility adults should have for their 4 year olds that cause accidents when unsupervised.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I've been called a liar, nazi, old lady and lame dog here. I deal with it by remaining calm and explaining my argument with official, independent reasearch to support my contention.

You blame children for their own deaths and lie about what the research actually says and refuse to say why.

You are, demonstrably, a liar.

My post-Thu Jan 01, 2009 15:59

That's the third time you've asked a question that's already been answered.

I never called you a lame dog but said that you reminded me of my old dog who loved going round in circles...just as you are doing on here. You have called me a muppet and other people other things but still haven;t answered my last question....I wonder why?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

please repeat it for me because like a lot of your answers they seem to get lost on here.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Only to you.

so as there are only us two on here why not repeat it?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.