Safe Speed Forums

So, what you are saying is perhaps? It isn't speed that causes accidents but having things in the same area as cars such as hospitals, shops, horses pedestrians etc.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

There is something fishy about that relationship. If it held true, there would be few crashes in the 30 zones,
and many in 70 zones. Yet in reality, there are few crashes in the 70 zones, and many in the 30 zones. Hm...

PS: Just read this:



But surely that can only mean that your earlier assertion (crash frequency increases approximately with the square of average traffic speed) is false? It seems that crash frequency is more complex than your previous post made out. It depends on many factors, as you say in your other post.

Stop making straw men. Speed is a greater contribution to accidents in a shared environment than in an segregated one.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Exactly...the old saying "speed kills" really should die off. Speed only kills if it isn' in places where it is at it's highest like motorways but at it's lowest like urban areas. So speed only kills where the safety experts want to use it as an excuse to put speed cameras.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I think that that should read all other things equal crash frequency increases approximately with the square of average traffic speed.

I am sure speed differential enters into it. It is difficult for two vehicles to collide if they have the same velocity

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Maybe we should say "low speed kills if someone careless gets into the eqaution"...or we could say "carelessness kills and let's blame speed"

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

abercrombie, I'd be interested in anything the council cited that mentioned safespeed in their decision? Claiming credit for their decision when you weren't even mentioned is a bit rich, and you should know Professer Stone has flatly refuted some of this campaign's other claims:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/repor ... 0623.shtml

All things equal means in a perfect world...but is it so perfect?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Speed only kills if it isn' in places where it is at it's highest like motorways but at it's lowest like urban areas.

No, for the reasons I've listed upthread four times now, you cannot derive satisfactory conclusions by mixing up two very different scenarios. The very fact of the limited vulnerable road user interactions on motorways makes the reliance by this campaign on this comparison look ill-advised.

"It is difficult for two vehicles to collide if they have the same velocity"


What rubbish! Have you never heard of a head on collission or someone running into the side of another?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Driving is all about mixing up different scenarios, the world is a very varied place just like the roads and by your being selective in only arguing about the roads that you want to argue about just goes to show up your inexperience in all matters relating to speed, roads and driving at all.....I would stick to arguing about something that you actually know something about because you are really showing yourself up to knowing nothing at all about raod safety at the moment, Oliver.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Yes, but things are never equal, which is what SafeSpeed is about. It's all about higgildy-piggildy roads, and ham-fisted efforts to standardise them. SafeSpeed says that it is the soul of the driver that needs to be tended to as well. We can't really do that by measuring his speed, I'm afraid.

Keep your shirt on, graball.... in a technical sense, velocity is a vector that also contains direction as well as speed.
If you have the same velocity, you can't collide - it's impossible.

Well said Abercrombie. Unfortunately inexperienced drivers and people who know nothing about driving assume that excessive speed is a fixed digit that never varies.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

unfortunately though cars do not travel on the same path and do approach each other in all directions so that phrase is totally irrelevant on the roads

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Driving is all about mixing up different scenarios,

Indeed, but highlighting the lack of pedestrian/cyclist deaths on motorways as evidence that speeding around pedestrians or cyclists is safe is a schoolboy howler. Motorways, who cares, raise the limit, all urban areas should be 20mph zones, scrap the fine and make it 6 points, that addresses the tax-raising argument and gets the drivers who cause misery off the roads. Look at the Zero Initiative in Sweden, unattainable, they said, but it's had remarkable results by strictly enforcing traffic laws, including those concerning speeding:

http://www.york.ac.uk/admin/presspr/pre ... erance.htm

Cumulative benefits of £100bn are not to be sniffed at.

Your argument seems to suggest that you think the roads have only two different scenarios! SafeSpeed's arguments
rests on the fact that there is an infinite number of different scenarios. Yet the "authorities" try vainly to fit those into a set
of little bands, which hardly ever actually relate to reality. That's the problem, 999oliver - officials who live
in cloud cuckoo land.

Unfortunately inexperienced drivers and people who know nothing about driving assume that excessive speed is a fixed digit that never varies.

Nobody here has claimed any such thing. Nobody here has implied any such thing. You are reading the thread?

Your argument seems to suggest that you think the roads have only two different scenarios!

I've suggested no such thing. I've explained that a misleading, dishonest comparison was drawn, not that only two comparisons exist.

How ridiculous is getting a 20 mph limit on ALL urabn areas, define an URBAN area, anywhere where you can see a house within 50 yards or within the boundaries of a town?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.