Safe Speed Forums

I’ve said it before but it’s easily the most dangerous thing I ever do.

I have just taken a work colleague back home after she got dreadful news this morning of her brother-in-law being killed. The man leaves behind a wife and two young children of five and eight years old. They were due to all share Christmas together this year, as they do every year.

It’s a further reminder to me, (not that I need it), of just how dangerous our roads have become for cyclists and I’m seriously considering not cycling to work any more. I’ve had so many near misses over the years and I have definitely seen a decline in driving standards of late.

When I heard the sad news today I thought to myself ‘there but for the grace of God go I’. I feel my turn could be soon if I keep trying to do the ‘healthy’ green thing.

I see cyclists in my job, (rehabilitation), and when I consider the volume of traffic these days, and more importantly the driving standard, I know it’s a recipe for disaster.

I wear all the right clothes and I have two lights on both the front and back but it still isn’t enough. It’s easy to see why a cycling group would hate drivers and support ‘Speed Kills’. As a cyclist I always feel drivers generally do go too fast or close to me for the conditions. (With emphasis on ‘for the conditions’).

I’m close enough to the countryside to get out at the weekends but as for cycling to work, I think it’s coming to an end for me sadly.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

On the positive side, you use this forum, and probably by default take a greater interest in safety and so will be abit more aware. Also you drive and ride a bike (right?), so you'll be that bit more aware of how other road users think and act.

Then there is the health benefits. You're saving money in Gordons tax and keeping fit at the same time. The fitness cycling gives you is probably extending your life, assuming the stress of trying not to get killed doesn't cancel it out

There is safety in numbers too. More bicycles, more safe, right?

i hear you.

not had too many issues personally, but my average riding is mostly quiet roads, even the commute is a majority of rural with urban either end.
to an extent i quite enjoy the rough & tumble of urban cycling, but then i am very aware, use road position carefully and am fast enough to keep up in many situations.

What are your other options ?
- Drive in... also pretty miserable in cities/towns
- Walk ? if not too far.
- Public transport... ick.

We have to ask why standards decline though.


It may just be that less police out there und a dependence on camera to "make folk safe or "educate"" may be a huge part of this problem

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

I suspect that a lot of the aggression shown to urban cyclists is due to subconcience jealousy. There you are: stationary in your £60,000 300hp Loxley Lozenge whist some oik on a £200 push bike speeds past you. Difficult not to hate him and tempting to show him a lesson.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I agree the other options are useless ed. I agree with what everyone has said in fact but the bottom line for me is I can’t change other drivers habits and have to put my safety first.

Where I used to live I could jog and I also had the option of using the canal path which, although somewhat convoluted, was at least safe. But since I’ve moved I’m now four miles away which is more than I could easily run. (Maybe ten years ago).

There is a bus service, the Midland Red, which I tried to use at the weekend for the first time. According to the timetable it should have turned up in five minutes but I waited for over twenty minutes in the cold before going back in my house for a warm and a cuppa. I went out again to catch the next one due at the top of the hour only to see it flash by me five minutes ahead of time. Congratulations Midland Red, your service sucks more than an RB211.

I hate using the car but to make the journey greener, cheaper and quicker I now leave my house at 6:45 before the world and his wife gets up. I have already seen two near misses with cyclists in one month on my new journey. The second one was this morning when a kid ran in front of a cyclist who was out of the seat pounding along the road. I mean the cyclist was wearing a full yellow jacket and he’s bolt upright so you could have seen him from Mars! As any cyclist knows, if you drop the anchors in that situation you’re likely to go over the bars, which is what nearly happened to him. If it had, he faced getting run over by oncoming traffic.

If it’s this bad in Birmingham I can only imagine what it must be like in London. I think as dcbwhaley said, there’s resentment too which adds to the danger for us. I’ve had two occasions where a car’s mirror has whacked my elbow as he went by. The one guy was on his mob which I think is especially a huge problem for us cyclists as the soft target. (I could easily have served time at her Majesty’s pleasure re-arranging the man’s face on that occasion but I managed to steel myself).

I’m beginning to think I shouldn’t have moved house.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

It's just starting to make the news.

They're not giving his details away, and I certainly won't, but I'm told there was indeed a big jam from drivers rubber necking

His poor family have had their lives turned completely upside down, as you can imagine. I just hope whoever is responible is brought to justice, and soon! But in these cases they always seem to get a fine and maybe a short ban. Big deal.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7783265.stm

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

and how many of these cases dont make the bbc ?

i'm not sure it really helps discussing individual cases but from the sat view A370 looks like:
a) a road i'd avoid if at all possible.
b) the long way round, especially at cycling speeds.

Sounds to me like the cyclist was not using COAST, or "driving at a speed at which he could stop in the distance he could see to be clear and reasonably expect to remain clear".

Unfortunately many people put on a day-glo top and forget they have a duty to keep themselves safe. Yes you want to get to work quickly, yes, slowing down can be a bind when you have a 1 in 10 to climb, but safety comes first. It's not enough to rely on other people seeing you.

For the record I have recently returned to cycling after being quite a keen cyclist 20 years ago, and I have not noticed things any worse than they were back then. Busier maybe, but busier roads often means slower traffic.

Fair point Homer and I'm always saying how you can't live your life in a bubble.

However, I remember saying here some time ago that, but for a fraction of a second, my life could have ended a year or so ago...

In brief, a numpty in a line of cars suddenly decided to wheel-spin off to the left down a side road because he was fed up of the jam. I was cycling up the inside of the cars as we all do, as cyclists.

Believe me, no amount of COAST could have predicted that one - and I believe in, and always use, COAST 100%!

Where I'm coming from, and I openly admit my job taints my viewpoint here, is that it's simple physics. Would you go into a boxing ring naked against an opponent dressed in full American Football raiment with horse shoes in boxing gloves? Actually, that doesn't even come close to what I'm trying to say. Some days I’ve had, it's feels more like a lamb to the slaughter.

This is where I have come to blows with members/posters here on SS sadly. When I KNOW the situation ahead is potentially dangerous based on my intimate in-depth knowledge of the road, the route, the time, (kids are not at school), and the fact that there are no pedestrians on the pavement - I do go up on the pavement for that short period. The part nearest the road BTW, in case someone charges out of their driveway. (Do people who object to this ever actually cycle I wonder?)

I know this is anathema to many and to this day, especially here on SS where our ethos is safety first, I just don't understand the objection so long as and only if it is done so responsibly. I've never understood why/how a safe speed for the conditions is so hugely different to safe riding on a pavement by a responsible cyclist where there are NO pedestrians and I WILL be putting myself at greater risk not to do so?

It's my belief that it stems from irresponsible cyclists in big cities like London whom DO NOT think of pedestrians or the fact that a red light means stop that I am also branded a pariah. (Funny how it works in Amsterdam, Copenhagen.... )

So, in the same way I think driving at 20 mph outside a school where there are no kids because it's midnight or holiday time is stupid, I think there is a contradiction here somewhere...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I always expect some numpty to shot down a side road when I'm filtering down a line of cars (on the left or right). When people get that trapped feeling they're very unpredicatable and very unlikey to think before they take action; programmed behaviour I think for getting out of trouble.

Granted, if they do it whilst you're actually next to them then you're in trouble.

I watch the front wheels, generaly the wheels will turn first, then the acceleration will come about a second later.

Usually yes. I agree with you weepej. But this car had powered steering and he simply turned and sped off with his front wheels spinning all in one movement as I was approaching his rear wheels. I could write a book on the near misses I’ve had. Most recently, in a similar situation, the passenger opened the door to get out early and walk the last bit. Again, but for my quick reaction and the timing, it could have been much worse.

I could argue that, as a matter of fact, if I was on the empty pavement I would have been safer and hurting no-one. I’m not sure what difference a line of paint on the pavement with pictures of cycles makes it so very much safer to one without?

The police turn a blind eye to this most heinous of crimes. In fact the two police I regularly see patrolling on bikes also cycle on the pavement. No-one bats an eyelid or minds, where I live. It’s like a tacit agreement between peds and cyclists – go carefully and responsibly and no-one minds.

Anyway, it’s all academic now since I won’t be cycling to work. (Maybe I’ll have a go in the spring/summer when drivers aren’t trying to look through a hole the size of a diner plate they’ve wiped or scraped clear).

Paul Conley's funeral is on Tuesday

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Can you perform a citizen's arrest on them for that crime?

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Andrew.

I read something recently (can't remember where), which basically said this point of view is officially supported. Provided you are not causing anyone an inconvenience by cycling on the pavement you shouldn't get a ticket. Anyway, I'm sure the BiB have better things to do than hand out £30 fixed penalty notices.

I doubt it But there again I wouldn’t even if I could because on each and every occasion I see them they are going slowly and responsibly. Admittedly they have to, it wouldn’t look very good if they made the news cycling into a ped but then if we all cycled carefully on the pavement no-one would have had a problem in the first place.

So again it seems to me yet another case of the few, probably or mainly in London, spoiling it for the rest giving responsible cyclists a bad reputation. Legislation and enforcement on the majority because of a minority of fools; using a hammer to fix a watch

As a pedestrian, I don’t mind seeing a cyclist coming towards me if he is doing so slowly, safely and responsibly. If it looks tight he stops and/or dismounts. We observe each other and between us decide what side we are going to pass on. In fact this is exactly what we do as pedestrians when another ped is coming towards us, is it not?

In all seriousness, I have been more concerned about women pushing their £300+ buggy complete with two brats towards me than any cyclist I have ever come across! When I used to jog to work, I’ve had my shin hit and my foot run over by them. On another occasion I’ve nearly fell over the top of one when she barged out of her driveway, hidden by hedges, right in front of me. Try foreseeing and avoiding that one in the winter on a pavement covered in wet leaves if you can. The stupid thing was, I apologised to her! I guess if I’d crashed into them doubtless they would have banned running on the pavement or enforce no running greater than 8mph followed by speed cameras on pavements...

I’ve never been hit by a cyclist though, not in the six years I was living a mile from work and often/usually jogged into work. I think slipping on a dog turd is the worst accident I have had. Gave the drivers stuck in traffic a good laugh mind. (Didn’t run into work for a couple of weeks after that one Couldn't anyway, nearly split the difference if you know what I mean?)

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Guildlines state that police shouldn't ticket people for riding on pavements, and certainly never ticket under 16s.

I must say pavement cycling in London isn't that common, I don't see a lot of it.

What I think is common is people on cycles using shared facilities, and people seeing them on the pavement and not considering that they are legally using the pavement.

From that I deduce you live in London weepej whereas I don't, so you are certainly more qualified to know about that situation than I. Where I am, in Birmingham, it's fairly commonplace and really isn't that big a problem or irritant to anyone.

The much bigger problem and I agree with those whom do not countenance my occasional (safe) pavement indiscretion, is jumping red lights which I don't do, never had and never will. From what I have read on this forum it is this dangerous activity which really gets up peoples noses.

Er, well, at the risk of now contradicting myself I have gone left on a red but then I think all traffic should be able to do so anyway, like they do in America, (only it's a right turn instead of course). It would help the flow of traffic, cause less pollution and I can see no drawback other than drivers getting used to it.

Unfortunately the resistance and only (none)argument is the old-school mentality of "it's the way we've always done it". I've driven >80,000 miles all over West USA and I can tell you it works perfectly well. (Back me up here Rush! Where are you when I need you? )

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

How is passsing a red light when there is neither traffic nor pedestrians within a hundred metres dangerous? The reason it gets up motorists noses when cyclists do it is back to jealousy. The motorists would love to do the same but are afraid of the consequences.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Well, I like your candour and I don't for one minute think there isn't an element of the antipathy or resentment you describe towards cyclists. (Goodness knows I see enough of it!)

You raise a good point and I think it deserves a frank reply. (I'm usually ready to grasp a forum nettle).

In itself, if the circumstances you describe prevail, then going over on a red isn't that dangerous at all. But I fear if I say to you "so your answer is to leave it to the discretion of the motorist?" you may retort something like, "well Smartypants, isn't that exactly what you are suggesting when it comes to speed?". Good point, perhaps

In which case my answer to you is do you want to do away with all lights?


Sort of on topic.. I'm reminded of a dialogue between myself and Paul which was the use of anonymous traff police in cars. It was to be the last post I received form him sadly and, from memory, his reply was that he supported the use of such traff police so long as they don't just act as another means of catching speeding motorists but actually clamp down on bad or dangerous driving.

So whether it's an inappropriate speed or red light violation etc. the substance of that reply is congruent IMO with the message of SS as I understand it and what you are suggesting is generally dangerous. (But, as always, the exception doesn't prove the rule).

Speed can be a contributing factor to a RTA which can make things worse if someone else jumps a red light. But if you jump a red light you are taking a massive gamble because you cannot possibly know that, in your own words, there are "neither traffic nor pedestrians within a hundred metres".

A hundred meters? Do you have radar?

I choose a speed where I can see what's ahead and take into account all the conditions including junctions. But one thing I cannot do is see around corners I'm approaching, so I slow down. Can you qualify your statement please because I think we’re talking apples and pears? If I assume you are not simply charging across red lights all the time, because you are alive and posting here, are you saying you stop at a crossroads, look each and every way and check all traffic and mammals with your thermal camera before proceeding to go over on red?

Oh and BTW, insurance companies take a very dim view on red lights violations too, but not on Joe Bloggs doing 10 or 20 mph over. Do you suppose they know something you don't?

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.