Safe Speed Forums

Someone on a VW owners' club PM'd me the other day saying how much he likes my VW Golf with its distinctive registration plate, which he sees driving around Crawley all the time.

The only problem is that I've never been to Crawley in my life.

The guy was 100% sure about the plate, so we asked around and it seems that several other people have seen "my" car in Crawley as well.

The question is what can I do?

I'd rather not wait for the parking and speeding fines to start coming through my door before going to the Police about this.

_________________
“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken

I'd report it at once - if only to give yourself ammunition ready for when the tickets start arriving! Could nay of the Crawley people photograph the vehicle for you?

_________________
I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

Yes, I've already asked them to get a photo if they see it again.

_________________
“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken

Ant - this happened to me, when I owned a VW Golf 4 Motion. I got a letter from the police, which I now understand to have been an NIP, wanting to know who'd been driving my car - in Brixton! I've never been to Brixton in my life. I had to satisfy the police that I had not been driving, and explained where I'd been at the time of the alleged offence (at home) and supplied pictures (front and back) of my car for them to compare with their own Gatso photos. The police were quite good about it. They accepted that I'd been home at the time and that the car in their photos was not my car. There was no police visit to my home. In their view, my car's number plate had been cloned with criminal intent, or else the situation had arisen because of a gross administrative error. I was told to keep the letter in which they advised me of this in the car whenever I was driving. I never heard any more about this.

A few months later, I got an irate letter from a London council for nonpayment of a parking fine! Again, I'd never been to the location where I was alleged to have parked. I sent a copy of the police letter, along with my own explanation of the circumstances. The council was NOT as nice as the police had been, and treated me like a criminal until they realised there was no prospect of getting any money out of me! I received no apology for the ordeal.

I sold that car in 2003, and never heard any more about it.

I speak from bitter experience having had my number plate cloned...

It was a blue 52-plate A4 Quattro. First I was aware was in October 2005 when I got a NIP from Wiltshire, alleged 98mph on the M4.

Problem was the location was 45 minutes drive flat out from my house - timed around 10-15 minutes after I'd left - going in the other direction!

Wiltshire cancelled the NIP after receving photos of my car.

In December the same year I received a further NIP from Cheshire, 46mph in a 40mph temp limit (SPECS) - I'd been at home all day. Again the NIP was cancelled once Cheshire received photos.

Then it got nasty. In January 2006 I received a letter from Kent Police stating that "you have failed to produce your documents". (See my thread in the "Help, I'm being prosecuted" section.) Kent refused to drop the case and I was subsequently convicted of speeding even though I was nowhere near the M20, no ID had been produced by the driver (he'd given my name and address) and my vehicle was flagged on the PNC as a potential clone.

The magistrates refused to accept the letters from Wiltshire and Cheshire police on the grounds that they were "hearsay evidence". Yet they allowed "hearsay evidence" regarding the identity of the driver to be admitted to secure a conviction.

It's now gone to appeal... 18th April. Fingers crossed.

_________________
Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

Cloned plates are a problem but one that can easily be sorted out if it's the police that do the enquiry. As some of you have said you just need to send them photographs of your car and they will look at it and decide to stop proceedings.

Only sometimes have I known the police to ask the owner to actually bring the car into the police station,for them to examine and in all these cases that was because the owners were trying it on saying that it wasnt them and they have been caught.

The other worst scenario would be that bailiffs start after you due to unpaid fines for,say,parking,congestion charges etc,they are harder and a lot more unsympathetic as all they want to do is recover their money and you wouldnt believe how many people just pay up as they dont want the hassle of them or the threat of court proceedings.

So,if the latter happens it's always worth a trip or a phone call to your local police station for advice before you actually do anything or hand over any of your hard earned cash.
Stephen

Stephen - I have a question for you?

In the case papers one of the two officers in the car that stopped "my" car (quotes as it was actually a nearly identical car bearing my registration number) they stated that they PNC checked the vehicle.

Yet the registration number was already flagged on PNC as a potential clone.

So were those officers negligent? And - assuming I win at appeal - do I have a case for malicious prosecution?

_________________
Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

How on earth did the guy get your name and address as well as your plates? Might be worth enquiring with DVLA about who's paid to get your details.

Might also be worth changing your plates to have something distinctive under the lettering that could be recognised too.

Might also be worthinsisting the PCs that stopped 'your' car carry out an identity parade and see if they cn pick you out.

_________________
Smokebelching,CO2 making,child murdering planet raping,granny mugging,politically incorrect globally warming (or is it climate changing now it's getting colder?)thug.
That's what the government want you to believe of me. If they get back in I'm emigrating.

I don't have that car any more, it got written off following an accident around 18 months ago.

As far as the DVLA angle goes I don't know whether that would be worth looking into at this stage - this took place over 2 years ago!

According to the statements in the bundle of papers that came back from the solicitors regarding this case both PCs said words to the effect of "due to the number of stops they undertake and the time elapsed since the incident we would not be able to recognise the driver of the vehicle by means of an identity parade".

Sounds to me like it was magistrates ignoring the law to gain "brownie points" for maximum convictions. We shall see at the appeal anyway.

_________________
Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

Sounds like you're right.

DVLA will have details going back at least 6 years as that's the minimum the Data Protection Act says it has to be kept for.

_________________
Smokebelching,CO2 making,child murdering planet raping,granny mugging,politically incorrect globally warming (or is it climate changing now it's getting colder?)thug.
That's what the government want you to believe of me. If they get back in I'm emigrating.

If there was a marker on the PNC in relation to the cloned plates,then the information would have to have previously been recorded.

If this is the case then it doesnt matter about the driver at the time of the stop,the first thing that should have been checked was the visible VIN plate,then depending on what this revealed would depend on the next
course of action.
Stephen

According to the officer's statements they PNC checked the vehicle's registration number which came back with my details.

Yet the plate had been cloned at least 2 months beforehand (NIP in October, this stop happened in December). A letter received from Wiltshire police confirms that the registration had been flagged on the PNC.

So two traffic cops claim to have PNC checked a vehicle and yet found no trace of a flag on it - when the vehicle was clearly flagged?

And in doing so they allowed the driver impersonating me to escape along with his cloned car...

It defies belief.

_________________
Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

Have you asked the question if they carried out any checks on the vehicle other than the VRM if so what did they say.

I presume there would only have been one chassis number with the true VIN details or have the thieves gone back in time and cleared the VIN of the stolen vehicle and replaced it with the VIN of the original vehicle,this I very much doubt.

Also have they said that the person driving at the time has given your details to them if this is also the case then,there is definetly something very fisshy going on and needs to be looked at in a lot more detail.

So,If I was you I would get back to the police and have them clarify these points to you,then you would be entitled to go on a Viper / ID parade for them to dsicount you from there enquiries, amongst other things.
Stephen

Haven't read all of this post , but if mine - I'd be looking at putting some distinguishing markers on front and rear - smething personal - so that you can clain that the photos ( when you get them ) can't show the markers .

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on