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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 23:34 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/7133532.stm
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Diabetes plea after fatal crash

Suzanne Meredith,
Image
here with husband Julian, worked with diabetics

The family of a nurse killed by a diabetic driver who crashed after a blackout have urged other sufferers to take care to monitor their condition.

Suzanne Meredith, 54, died and her husband Julian was badly hurt when they were struck by Phillip Willey's car.

Willey, 46, from Penarth, Vale of Glamorgan, was jailed for causing death by dangerous driving.

Diabetes UK also urged diabetic drivers to be extra vigilant on the roads for the safety of themselves and others.

Judge Christopher Llewellyn-Jones QC told Willey he was guilty of "gross mismanagement" of his condition as he sentenced him to four-and-a-half years at Cardiff Crown Court.

The court was told Willey "mowed down" mother-of-three Mrs Meredith as he drove home while she and her husband were walking in Sully, Vale of Glamorgan, near their home.

It emerged in court that Willey, who had been diabetic for 10 years, did not carry sweets, Lucozade or food which could prevent a hypoglycaemic attack - where there is a shortage of glucose (or sugar) in the brain.

He had not attended at his diabetes clinic for six years and did not attend his annual review of provide blood glucose test results.

Following the court case the Meredith family urged diabetics to carefully monitor their condition.

"If just one life can be saved and just one family can be spared the suffering we will have to endure for the rest of our lives, then Suzanne's life would not have been in vain," their relatives said.

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Phillip Willey did not notify the DVLA about his diabetes, the court heard

Cathy Moulton, a care advisor for Diabetes UK, said diabetics had to inform the DVLA of their condition.

They were also given advice on driving by doctors and nurses, but she added: "Obviously there will be some people who slip through the net.

"The problem is driving is very stressful and the release of adrenaline can alter blood glucose levels."

Among the advice given to drivers with diabetes is to check their blood sugar levels before they drive, carry sweets or high sugared drinks in the car.

They are also urged to stop as soon as they feel an attack coming on.

But Ms Moulton said people with diabetes had to monitor their condition "throughout their lives, day in day out".

"It is for their own safety and that of others," she added.

ADVICE TO DIABETIC DRIVERS
Inform the DVLA of your condition
For those who use insulin, check your blood sugar levels
If you are on a long journey, stop to check your levels every two hours
Always carry sweets and non-diet drinks in case of a hypoglycaemic attack
If you feel an attack coming on, stop somewhere safe, remove keys from ignition and have a sugary snack or drink
Source: Diabetes UK

Should we be "MOT'ing" drivers? :oops:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 00:20 
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While Willey had undoubtedly been irresponsible, given that there was no intent or deliberate recklessness, what purpose is served by jailing him for 4½ years?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 01:26 
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PeterE wrote:
While Willey had undoubtedly been irresponsible, given that there was no intent or deliberate recklessness, what purpose is served by jailing him for 4½ years?

Several members of my wifes family have diabetes, as well as my aunt, and not having the tests, and continuing to drive against advice to have the tests is not only reckless as far as driving is concerned, but in some cases can lead to premature death.

I'm not enthusiastic with the length of the sentence, but I do think a custodial sentence will be a deterrent, and bring home the dangers posed to those who might be a little blase.
I hope it is widely reported otherwise the effect will be negated.

A good few years ago, A near neighbour had a couple of epileptic fits in the local pub - but when asked if he was safe to drive he always said it was the pub environment which brought on the fits, and that his medication suppressed the symptoms the rest of the time.
One day on my way home, his car was blocking the main road having run headlong into an oncoming vehicle.
Luckily nobody was killed, but to this day I regret not checking further into his condition and fitness to drive, and would not make the same mistake again.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 07:00 
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news bbc.co.uk wrote:
Cathy Moulton, a care advisor for Diabetes UK, said diabetics had to inform the DVLA of their condition

This is entirely misleading. There is a requirement to notify dvla of diabetes if - and only if - treatment is with insulin; otherwise the onus is on the individiual properly to monitor and control the condition - generally with the support of and regular checks at a diabetic clinic or facility. Of course, anyone who suffers a physical deterioration - whatever the cause - that impacts on ability to drive is required to notify DVLA anyway.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/MedicalRulesForDrivers/DG_10030957

DVLA wrote:
A guide for drivers with diabetes treated by tablets and or diet
>
>
>
Informing DVLA
The law requires you to inform DVLA if any of the following occur:
• you require treatment with insulin
• you require laser treatment to both eyes for retinopathy, or the remaining eye if one eye only
• if both eyes, or remaining eye if one eye only, are affected by other eye problems, (you are required by law to be able to read, with corrective lenses if necessary, a car number plate in good light at 20.5 metres (67 feet) or 20 metres (65 feet) where narrower characters 50mm wide are displayed)
• you develop problems with the circulation or sensation in the legs, which make it necessary for you to drive certain types of vehicles only, eg automatic vehicles or modifications to a vehicle, hand operated accelerator brake. This must be noted on the licence
• an existing medical condition deteriorates or you develop any other condition which may affect safe driving at any time in the future


DVLA publish the ' At a glance guide to the current medical standards of fitness to drive' which can be downloaded from http://www.dvla.gov.uk/medical/ataglance.aspx

To ignore the condition and the help available to monitor and control it is beyond comprehension; the personal consequences are frightening enough - susceptibilty to blindness, heart conditions, circulation problems and nerve damage (amongst others)...the potential external consequences are clear in this sad and entirely avoidable case. Such a reckless disregard for safety of self and others deserves punishment


Ernest Marsh wrote:
ADVICE TO DIABETIC DRIVERS
Inform the DVLA of your condition see above
For those who use insulin - nah! EVERY diabetic, check your blood sugar levels regularly
If you are on a long journey, stop to check your levels every two hours not necessary so often when one is accustomed to managing the condition
Always carry sweets and non-diet drinks in case of a hypoglycaemic attack YES YES YES
If you feel an attack coming on, stop somewhere safe, remove keys from ignition and have a sugary snack or drink
Source: Diabetes UK


and yes, I am diabetic - and hold a Group 2 driving licence


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 18:03 
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PeterE wrote:
While Willey had undoubtedly been irresponsible, given that there was no intent or deliberate recklessness, what purpose is served by jailing him for 4½ years?


He was a driver - State revenge

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 19:33 
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Telling the DVLA will only put your insurance up so I can see why people might not.

I know someone who is insulin dependant and from what I've heard the insurance is quite excessively expensive. I'm sure the insurance bastards won't take into account how good you are at controlling your diabetes. The likelihood of a diabetic related accident is probably not much different to the likelihood of anyone falling asleep because they are more tired than they thought.

However stopping to do a blood test would be better than doing one at 100mph on the motorway. But this is the UK and there's nowhere to stop. :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 05:48 
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Ziltro wrote:
Telling the DVLA will only put your insurance up so I can see why people might not.

But not telling your insurers risks invalidating the policy...and if there is need to notify DVLA, cover may well be refused if that is not done.

Some while ago, having been insured for some years with the same company who were aware of my diabetes and the method of treatment/control, I was denied an offer of renewal. The susequent telephone conversation went something like:

"You have declined to offer renewal of my policy. Why?"
"Because you have an undeclared medical condition"
"Oh! What condition is that?"
"You're diabetic"
"Yes I am...and if I've not declared it to you, how do you know?"
"But you haven't told DVLA"
"Because I'm not required to"

A renewal was subsequently offered...but the point I'm making is the communication between the insurers and DVLA - even if, between them, they couldn't get the facts right.

Ziltro wrote:
I know someone...and from what I've heard the insurance is quite excessively expensive

The condition shouldn't adversely affect insurance premiums - it's certainly not inflated mine. Although I've never had recourse to it, http://www.diabetes.org.uk have a financial services division that will arrange motor insurance quotes - may well be worth a try for anyone who feels disadvataged by their present company


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:52 
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cabbie wrote:
Some while ago, having been insured for some years with the same company who were aware of my diabetes and the method of treatment/control, I was denied an offer of renewal. The susequent telephone conversation went something like:

"You have declined to offer renewal of my policy. Why?"
"Because you have an undeclared medical condition"
"Oh! What condition is that?"
"You're diabetic"
"Yes I am...and if I've not declared it to you, how do you know?"
"But you haven't told DVLA"
"Because I'm not required to"

A renewal was subsequently offered...but the point I'm making is the communication between the insurers and DVLA - even if, between them, they couldn't get the facts right.


Eh? Are you saying that the insurance company had access to your confidential medical history? Really? How?

And How dare they?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:27 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Eh? Are you saying that the insurance company had access to your confidential medical history? Really? How?

And How dare they?


As cabbie mentioned, the insurance company already knew, they probably checked with the DVLA. I wouldn't be surprised if the DVLA/Insurance/MOT database shows this information.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:31 
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R1Nut wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
Eh? Are you saying that the insurance company had access to your confidential medical history? Really? How?

And How dare they?


As cabbie mentioned, the insurance company already knew, they probably checked with the DVLA. I wouldn't be surprised if the DVLA/Insurance/MOT database shows this information.


But Cabbie also said he hadn't informed DVLA because he was not obliged to do so.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:57 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
R1Nut wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
Eh? Are you saying that the insurance company had access to your confidential medical history? Really? How?

And How dare they?


As cabbie mentioned, the insurance company already knew, they probably checked with the DVLA. I wouldn't be surprised if the DVLA/Insurance/MOT database shows this information.


But Cabbie also said he hadn't informed DVLA because he was not obliged to do so.


I was going to say because

cabbie wrote:
Some while ago, having been insured for some years with the same company who were aware of my diabetes and the method of treatment/control...


but then he also posted

cabbie wrote:
"Yes I am...and if I've not declared it to you, how do you know?"


Is it possible that he was being ironic? The insurance company complained about an undeclared condition when the only reason they checked with the DVLA was because he had already informed the insurance company.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 13:31 
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toltec wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
R1Nut wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
Eh? Are you saying that the insurance company had access to your confidential medical history? Really? How?

And How dare they?


As cabbie mentioned, the insurance company already knew, they probably checked with the DVLA. I wouldn't be surprised if the DVLA/Insurance/MOT database shows this information.


But Cabbie also said he hadn't informed DVLA because he was not obliged to do so.


I was going to say because

cabbie wrote:
Some while ago, having been insured for some years with the same company who were aware of my diabetes and the method of treatment/control...


but then he also posted

cabbie wrote:
"Yes I am...and if I've not declared it to you, how do you know?"


Is it possible that he was being ironic? The insurance company complained about an undeclared condition when the only reason they checked with the DVLA was because he had already informed the insurance company.


Ahh. I missed something there. Thanks. Sorry folks.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 13:47 
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Diabetics as you say, are penalised for getting treatment and declaring to the DVLA. Yet there is nothing worse than a diabetic who is not monitoring their condition.

There is a case for ad diabetic to get an insurance suitability certificate from his/her GP to state that their condition is under regular control and reduce their loading.

I had a colleague who had a few seizures and refused medical help because he would be banned for a year. The one that was witnessed he did not have time to put his coffee down and it went all over the wall. He then tried to convince us all that he was fit to drive and would have time to pull over.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 14:15 
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Slightly different treatment - first of all DVLA said that it was a requirement to notify them of any medical condition,,although those on tablets would have no conditions attached .My insurance company just noted it , no change in premiums. Likewise works insurance.
Problem is the stigma attached due to those who are on insulin and not monitoring their levels.
And interestingly enough local medical attitude is to provide monitoring equipment to those on insulin ,but if those on tablets provide their own equipment, the NHS will provide the lancets etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 14:16 
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Without loading up with quotes, the above postings do cover the sitiuation:

My insurers knew, DVLA didn't (and still don't need to). A clerk somehow picked up on this 'omission' and, with the shared brain cell in use elsewhere, assumed I had failed to comply with requirements and blocked my renewal. On pointing out the actual regulations, an offer of cover was made (and declined!)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 14:28 
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botach wrote:
Problem is the stigma attached due to those who are on insulin and not monitoring their levels.

Not really stigmatising as balancing dietary intake with insulin dosage takes some getting used to - and, while doing so, blood sugar levels can fluctuate allarmingly. It used to be the case that a Group 2 licence would be suspended for 6 months when going on to insulin treatment - this to ensure that proper control is achieved and maintained; I believe now that this has changed to revocation of licence with subsequent reinstatement examined individually

Any insulin dependent diabetic who doesn't monitor blood glucose is on a dangerous course - both for themselves and (if driving) for other road users.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 14:39 
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cabbie wrote:

Any insulin dependent diabetic who doesn't monitor blood glucose is on a dangerous course - both for themselves and (if driving) for other road users.


Totally agree with you - but my experience (even with some first aiders ) when they found out was the idea that seizures were common place.That was my first question to my doctor .
Those on insulin have to re apply for a four year licence with medical evidence.( or so on chap at work on insulin tells me )

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 20:09 
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PeterE wrote:
While Willey had undoubtedly been irresponsible, given that there was no intent or deliberate recklessness, what purpose is served by jailing him for 4½ years?


The socioeconomic cost of imprisoning him will be likly to be in excess of £500,000.

(cost of imprisonment combined with cost of taking him "Out of the system")

I find it hard to imagine exactly what benefit we, as a socioty, will derive from expending this level of resourses on locking him up!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 21:42 
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I know someone who is insulin dependant and from what I've heard the insurance is quite excessively expensive.


Not True! I have been Insulin Dependant for nearly 20 years now. Learnt to drive at 27 and have been driving for 4 years now. I pay £265 Full Comp. for a 2 Litre Turbo SAAB. My insurance has never been expensive and I am fully declared to both the insurance company and the DVLA.

One other thing not yet mentioned is that insulin dependant diabetics have to renew their licence every 3 years subject to a review by your GP. If he/she doesnt think you are under control then he/she is well within their right to tell the DVLA to not renew your licence!

I have something sweet in the car if I need it but the advice about stopping every 2 hours is a bit excessive. If you know you are going long distance, make sure you have something to hand. I take a bag of Mint Imperials and suck on a fresh one every 20-30 minutes but thats just my personal preference.

On a non-motoring related point. Dont bother buying Diabetic Chocolate or sweets. Its still got loads of Carbohydrate in it and if you arent reading the labels properly plenty of laxative too. Not what you want on a long journey!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 03:59 
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On a different tack....

My Mother was a diabetic from the age of 19, when she fell into a 5 day coma. This would be in the late 1930's I think.

I've had no problems throughout my life, but I recently asked my GP to check because of the hereditary connection. Luckily, I'm OK......

Yet it's something for me to keep an eye on....

I never remember my Mother being illucid (she was in fact, very intelligent) except for the time that she had Flu.....and her insulin level became unbalanced.

Then she tried to write for us, what she needed from the shop, and the pen was upside down.


May God, Bless her.........


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