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Ernest Marsh
 Post subject: Love Modern Technology?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:49 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/7073935.stm
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Drivers stranded by car signals

More than a dozen motorists were left stuck in a car park when a car's central locking system malfunctioned and blocked drivers' key fobs.

Some cars failed to start on Tuesday in Parrock Street car park, in Gravesend, Kent, while others would not unlock.

Stranded drivers were left to call motoring organisations for help.

However Gravesend Borough Council had been investigating similar problems in the car park for weeks. Finally Ofcom was called and the offending car found.

A spokesman said "weeks of sleuthing" by council officers had them looking for a rogue transmitter or wireless broadband unit in nearby offices.

Staff also checked all transmissions in and around the car park, because of nearby communications at the town's Civic Centre and police station.

A recently-installed system transmitting car park usage each minute to display signs across Gravesend was also checked.

'Driver unaware'

"All the time the situation seemed to be worsening with the last straw this week when more than a dozen motorists were stuck," he added.

He said alarms had been going off, and drivers had experienced "mysterious and sporadic" difficulties with car locks.

Some people tried replacing their fob batteries, he added.

Ofcom was finally called and a survey found a small family car was intermittently sending out signals blocking other fobs in a 164ft (50 m) radius.

A notice was placed on the car informing the owner - a commuter who left his vehicle there all day.

The spokesman said: "The driver was unaware of the problems his car had been causing and has now made contact with us and the problem will be fixed once and for all."


Where will it all end, as we get more and more wireless devices? :)

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Twister
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:18 
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Hmm, so does this mean some keyless-entry cars really are keyless, with not even a fold-out emergency key inside the fob (as on the two "keyless" hire cars I've used in recent years) for situations exactly like this? How do they cope if the fob batteries run out? I don't have a problem with remote (un)locking systems as such, but I'd be very wary if there wasn't any sort of user-accessible mechanical override...


...or is this story just an indication that a lot of drivers don't have much of a clue about their vehicles, and didn't realise there WAS still a way for them to unlock the doors if their magic plipper stopped working?

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BrianR
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:25 
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My car has a key that you can pull out of the corner of the key fob, but woe betide you if you ever try to use it. The alarm goes off immediately as you push it into the hidden keyhole on the underside of the door handle and there is no keyhole in the car to start the engine. Just a push-start.

The way it works, is that as long as the keyfob is on your person, as you touch the door handle, the doors all unlock, and then the engine starts as long as you put your foot on the brake while pushing the button.

Hope my battery never goes flat on the keyfob.

:roll:
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SafeSpeed
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:39 
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BrianR wrote:
My car has a key that you can pull out of the corner of the key fob, but woe betide you if you ever try to use it. The alarm goes off immediately as you push it into the hidden keyhole on the underside of the door handle and there is no keyhole in the car to start the engine. Just a push-start.

The way it works, is that as long as the keyfob is on your person, as you touch the door handle, the doors all unlock, and then the engine starts as long as you put your foot on the brake while pushing the button.

Hope my battery never goes flat on the keyfob.

:roll:


So have we abandoned steering locks while I wasn't looking?

Or is the steering lock under control of the same electronic signal?

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Twister
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:56 
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BrianR wrote:
My car has a key that you can pull out of the corner of the key fob, but woe betide you if you ever try to use it. The alarm goes off immediately as you push it into the hidden keyhole on the underside of the door handle and there is no keyhole in the car to start the engine. Just a push-start.


That sounds like the Megane hire car I had last year, except to start that the fob had to be put in a slot on the dashboard (presumably so the immobiliser transponder could be read). In essence this is no different to how Vauxhall "keyless" entry works on my Omega-if the fob stops responding/battery runs out I unlock the door using the traditional key (traditional in the sense that it's not tucked away inside the fob), the alarm goes off, and I then turn on the ignition as normal-the immobiliser transponder is a separate module within the fob which gets powered from a coil in the steering column, it's totally independent of the remote locking transmitter/battery alongside it in the fob. Are you saying there is absolutely NO way to disable the alarm if the fob battery expires, or the fob and car otherwise decide to stop talking to one another?

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ed_m
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:24 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
So have we abandoned steering locks while I wasn't looking?

Or is the steering lock under control of the same electronic signal?


i suspect electrotrickery.... i can think of a fairly old model sports car that has had to have this for a while due to location of the ignition key.

in fact.. i wonder if our smart has it, as the ignition is between the seats.
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Mole
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 13:02 
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I agree that it's highly unlikely there won't be a mechanical backup entry system. I think people jus thaven't bothered reading their manuals! As has been said, the alarms often go off but just about every manufacturer I can think of has a way of shutting that up once you're inside with the correct key.

As I understand it, all (mass produced) passenger cars need at least either a steering lock OR a transmission lock before they can be type approved in the EC. They can, of course, have other systems too. That said, part of the "Electromagnetic Compatibility" test that they have to undergo involves checking the vehicle's electrical systems for susceptibility to all sorts of external interference so I'm a bit surprised that a malfunction in one car can affect others - unless there has been a bit of a DIY system cobbled up for it!
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botach
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 13:06 
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And the last model of Transit (perhaps even the Connect ) - if the vehicle battery goes flat you can only get into the cab.

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jomukuk
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 13:36 
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It is not interference that causes it, strictly speaking. It is caused by "blocking". A transmitter in operation on the same, or a near, frequency means the receiver in the "blocked" vehicle cannot receive the signal. The blocking signal is stronger than the keyfob transmitter.
The problem is not helped by the use of frequencies (433.92 mhz) which are slap in the middle of the range used by amateur radio mobile operators on 70cm band. Since the average power out on a 70cm mobile transmitter is in the order of 25 watts.....
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anton
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 13:36 
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The same problem occurs when the french warships dock in portsmouth. They use a different frequency and prevent some cars from even starting.
Some cars have had to be towed out of the gunwarf carpark to get them to start. :lol:

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