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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 22:05 
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MrsMiggins wrote:
I've often seen the expression with that spelling, tow instead of toe, but I can honestly say I've never actually known anyone to use it in the context you just did! I'd always just thought of it as one of those expressions that people mis-spell, like being on 'tenderhooks' instead of 'tenterhooks'. :)


You're absolutely right, Mrs M: "toe the line" is correct; "tow the line" is a phonetic mis-spelling.

And yes, I am a pedantic bastard - and proud of it!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 22:11 
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I'm not pedantic, I'm precise ;-) - and equally proud.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 22:29 
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Its my understanding that it can be either. 'Towing the line' is a naval term, refering to doing one's share of the work when a gang of sailors would haul on the heavy hawsers during the docking of a ship.

Regardless, I knew what I meant, and clearly so did others, if its too metaphorical for you, just say.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 22:41 
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It seems general opinion is against you. In the case of "tow the line" as well.

http://www.grammartips.homestead.com/toetheline.html
Grammartips wrote:
"Toe the Line," NOT "Tow the Line"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line
wiki wrote:
Sometimes this phrase is written "tow the line", likely by people who have heard but not seen it written. This misspelling changes the meaning of the phrase slightly, rather than implying conformance with a rule, "tow" suggests contribution to a cause, e.g. "the pundit is towing the administration's line" alluding to a metaphorical act of pulling something with a line, cord or rope. However, this variant is grammatically suspect

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_boar ... s/685.html
phrases wrote:
it's only a sign of ignorance. "Toe the line" means to place your feet as prescribed. To tow a line would mean to drag it and doesn't call up any relevant image.


even the naval term is "Toe the line":
http://www.history.navy.mil/trivia/trivia03.htm
Quote:
Toe the line
The space between each pair of deck planks in a wooden ship was filled with a packing material called "oakum" and then sealed with a mixture of pitch and tar. The result, from afar, was a series of parallel lines a half-foot or so apart, running the length of the deck. Once a week, as a rule, usually on Sunday, a warship's crew was ordered to fall in at quarters -- that is, each group of men into which the crew was divided would line up in formation in a given area of the deck. To insure a neat alignment of each row, the Sailors were directed to stand with their toes just touching a particular seam. Another use for these seams was punitive. The youngsters in a ship, be they ship's boys or student officers, might be required to stand with their toes just touching a designated seam for a length of time as punishment for some minor infraction of discipline, such as talking or fidgeting at the wrong time. A tough captain might require the miscreant to stand there, not talking to anyone, in fair weather or foul, for hours at a time. Hopefully, he would learn it was easier and more pleasant to conduct himself in the required manner rather than suffer the punishment. From these two uses of deck seams comes our cautionary word to obstreperous youngsters to "toe the line."

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 06:32 
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Ah well, if general opinion says so, then it must be right!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 09:02 
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Roger wrote:
I'm not pedantic, I'm precise ;-) - and equally proud.


I might use that :D

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 09:58 
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Are you sure you don't mean accurate? :D

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:22 
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Tow the line sounds like a good punishment
but I like Tow the line where one is to follow the political whip

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“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:28 
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anton wrote:
Tow the line sounds like a good punishment
but I like Tow the line where one is to follow the political whip


but, as defined above, in that context TOW the line would suggest making the political whip follow.

"Be towed by the line" would be more accurate (or precise) for your definition.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:35 
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The metaphor is a linguistic tool available to be used by the author. It can be neither right nor wrong, though some might be more obscure than others. If someone was to use a metaphor involving pygmies and sacks of squirrels then noone could jump up and tell them it was wrong!

Incidentally, the heavy hawsers were towed in, by pulling lighter lines that were (and indeed are) used to cast ashore.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:40 
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RobinXe wrote:
If someone was to use a metaphor involving pygmies and sacks of squirrels then noone could jump up and tell them it was wrong!


[Handy now has an irrational desire to utilise pygmies and squirrels in an email discussion in work ... must ... resist ... temptation] :D

p.s. would that be Peter Noone? Would it be getting into something good?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 16:10 
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I am a pedant and proud of it.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 02:41 
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smeggy wrote:
stanley hill wrote:
and it gets worse...

http://www.stanleyhill.org

There a total of 8 posts, 5 of these from the site owner.
It has been over a month since the last post.

Perhaps there would have been more activity if he had let people register :roll:

Well, since then an amazing 1 person has registered on the site. The response of the admin in the only thread with recent activity is very telling. The last post is an appropriate summation.

http://stanleyhill.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:00 
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I'm amazed Roverdriver hasn't been banned.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:50 
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Heh, thats funny. The Stanley Hill 'Village Green Preservation Society' have retreated to their bunker, complete with fingers-in-ears earmuffs and accompanying 'la-la-la' soundtrack! Anyone who dares to offer a sensible, and evidence supported, differing opinion is quite easy to dismiss as a member of the evil "'safe' and 'speed'" website, who are on a despicable mission to "take over" the Stanley Hill forums with their devilish tactic of telling the truth and asking awkward questions!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:40 
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sotonsteve wrote:
It's not one of these roads where locals think its dangerous to exceed 30mph when the speed limit was once a safe 40mph with an 85th percentile speed of 44mph or something?


Yes. That's a good point.

But its all about perception, isn't it?

Whilst 44mph might seem acceptable to a competent driver, or a fit pedestrian, it might not seem acceptable to someone of advanced years with severe arthritis who is trying to cross the road.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:50 
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Thatsnews wrote:
Whilst 44mph might seem acceptable to a competent driver, or a fit pedestrian, it might not seem acceptable to someone of advanced years with severe arthritis who is trying to cross the road.

In that case, why not campaign for installation of appropriate street furniture instead of calling for a restriction that needlessly brings everyone down to the level of the lowest common denominator?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 13:49 
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Thatsnews wrote:
Whilst 44mph might seem acceptable to a competent driver, or a fit pedestrian, it might not seem acceptable to someone of advanced years with severe arthritis who is trying to cross the road.

I don't believe that everything should be "dumbed down" to the worst case scenario. If you have severe arthritis, you cannot expect everything to be arranged for your convenience - YOU try to arrange YOUR life to improve YOUR situation. You campaign for a pelican crossing for you to cross in safety.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 14:20 
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smeggy wrote:
Thatsnews wrote:
Whilst 44mph might seem acceptable to a competent driver, or a fit pedestrian, it might not seem acceptable to someone of advanced years with severe arthritis who is trying to cross the road.

In that case, why not campaign for installation of appropriate street furniture instead of calling for a restriction that needlessly brings everyone down to the level of the lowest common denominator?


This is the sort of comment that doesn't really do this campaign any credit at all Smeg.
Yes, if people are having difficulty in crossing the road then some sort of facility could be introduced to assist them. But if one of the reasons for their difficulty is the speed of the traffic then a good place to start is to encourage the drivers to be a bit more altruistic and slow down.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 14:39 
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Rigpig wrote:
This is the sort of comment that doesn't really do this campaign any credit at all Smeg.
Yes, if people are having difficulty in crossing the road then some sort of facility could be introduced to assist them. But if one of the reasons for their difficulty is the speed of the traffic then a good place to start is to encourage the drivers to be a bit more altruistic and slow down.

I see your point but I still disagree. How would drivers know if someone is having difficulty as opposed to waiting for someone/something or just standing there to mischievously slow traffic?
Traffic doing 30 won’t help such a critically disabled person to cross a road – in this circumstance drivers need to give way by slowing to a stop.

Don’t get me wrong, I respect the 30 limits in residential areas, but to impose a blanket restriction for something which is infrequent and can be solved with a more appropriate solution is unreasonable and can lead to danger: "this low limit is ridiculous, I won’t abide by it".


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