Safe Speed Forums

Given that the average speed on UK motorways is over the speed limit then you are creating an obstruction and therefore a hazard. By doing so it is quite possible that you will become the cause of accidents that you would ascribe to speeding.

Speeding may not be legal, however deliberately exacerbating the situation is just plain dumb.

Leave the policing to the police!

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

I don't agree, MLM can't be 'hazards'; they're more a catalyst for (further) poor driving.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Last week I came across the most blatant example in ages. I was on the A14 in a two lane 50mph limit and I was doing 50mph. I caught up with a car sitting in the outside lane doing 45mph with nothing in L1 and nothing in front for as far as I could see. I sat behind him for a while and then flashed him - no reaction. Two other cars passed both of us in L1 - still no reaction. Eventually I started to get fed up with this moron and put my lights on main beam. After about 20 seconds he put his hazard warning lights on and slowed down to 40mph (at least he knew he was a f$%^&g hazard). At this point I just pulled into L1 and passed him. Another couple of cars followed me and even then he didn't move over.

I'm sure he genuinely believed he was doing 50mph but did he really think he was contributing to road safety by deliberatly annoying a dozen other drivers?

One thing that is undeniable is that if there is room for people to pass you on the inside then you have plenty of room to move over.

But why? What possible benefit to you is there over being in lane 1? 'Speeding' motorists don't affect your driving one bit, but you directly affect others.

Are you scared of changing lanes too much? It's easy with a bit of practice! Or is it just arrogant dog-in-the-manger laziness?

But are you actually driving at the legal speed limit, or at what your speedometer indicates as being 70 mph? There can be a big difference. Your speed reading can easily be 10% higher than your actual speed and as the tyres on your driven wheels wear, this can add another 2% to the reading. Thus a 12% over-reading is possible which, at 70 mph, is 8.4 mph over-reading - you could be indicating 70 mph but actually doing 61.6 mph. How do you compensate for this error, or don't you really care about that?
If this is your attitude whilst on the road, one might reasonably wonder what it's like to have you as a neighbour. Presumably you are the sort who will report minor offences (like my painting my shed with some creosote), or for putting my bins out at the wrong time, of for anything else which is a minor breach of some insignificant law.
And oh, how you'll whinge when a police officer in an unmarked car stops you and reports you for Driving Without Reasonable Consideration for Other Road Users, you get a £60 fine and 3 points, because you hogged the middle lane at c.64 mph when the inside lane was completely clear. It's illegal.

I have already stated that it is not up to the moron to police others, and the moron doesn't know whether the vehicle behind is an emergency vehicle, or whether it's a private vehicle being used for ambulance purposes. This is because the moron doesn't need to know, and the moron should be concentrating on improving their moronic, woeful, dangerous, inconsiderate, tw@t-like driving. And preferably not driving on the motorway at all until they're prepared to do so.

If I thought for a minute that you wanted a genuine debate, I would continue to engage with you. As it is, I would ask you to go and troll somewhere else, and to stop being a moron, both on the motorway and elsewhere. Life's too short, and you're causing stress for yourself as much as everyone else. As I've said, why not have a trial period driving correctly; you may be pleasantly surprised. Or are you that obstinate and hateful of other drivers that you won't even try it?

Now please go away. Please. I would be very happy to debate middle lane hogging with a genuine opponent who made new, interesting points, but that sadly is not you. Like speed camera proponents, it seems that halfway intelligent, reasonable middle lane hoggers are very, very rare indeed. Telling, non?

Just a general point: the morons claim to be so concerned about stopping people from breaking the law. Isn't it strange how it's only the speeding law that they seem to care about? You don't see them going round cleaning up the estates, challenging drug dealers for example. It's almost as if they're pathetic cowards who only challenge generally law-abiding, non-violent citizens from the safety of their cars. Perish the thought.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

Except of course that the morons should be made to resit their tests as well. No way would they be able to pass while driving like such tits. Which would tell them something if they weren't so utterly cretinous and opinionated.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

Perhaps you are not aware, but emergency vehicles have things such as sirens and lights. And please, what is the likelihood that a private vehicle is being used for ambulance purposes? How often does that happen?

And it's not up to morons to speed.

Now how is it dangerous to drive in the middle lane at the speed limit? How is it woeful?



Firstly, I'm not being a moron. I can see that you are arrogant, but it doesn't help your argument. I'm not trolling - this is genuinely what I believe. Do you call everyone who dares to disagree with you a troll? As for a genuine debate, how is that possible when the first thing people say on here is talk about "morons". You're clearly not interested in trying to understand and appreciate why people act differently to yourself. You just want to childishly call them morons.

And why don't you have a trial period sticking to the speed limit? You may well find that you don't get quite as annoyed with other drivers as you are currently doing. Or are you that obstinate and hateful of other drivers that you won't even try it?



And what new, interesting points have you made? You've just called people names. And that is halfway intelligent and reasonable because...?



Well in my case that's just a load of rubbish. I do challenge people on different subjects. But hey, you're not interested in a genuine debate are you, you just want to call people names. How pathetic.

Who put you in charge of making other people's driving experience more dangerous than it need be, regardless of your perception of their speed?

Only if the middle-lane driver is doing the speed limit.



I haven't read every single post but a fair few.



But do you really think that the average modern car's speedo is out by anywhere as near as 10%? If that's the case, how come Jeremy Clarkson and his co-presenters on Top Gear not only haven't made a big deal out of this huge inaccuracy, but haven't mentioned it at all?

To mention one thing that happened to me, when I was driving at the speed limit on a residential road I got overtaken. I flashed my lights and on this occasion for some reason left them on full beam. The driver who had just overtaken me then stopped! I waited a moment, turned my lights down and then he started up again. So again I put my lights on full beam, and again he stopped. I turned my lights down, he drove off, I put my lights on and for a third time he stopped. This time I just left my lights on. After a moment he drove off. So despite the fact that he was obviously in a hurry, he stopped three times! And someone on here called ME a moron!

By the way, you're not going to try and claim that it makes no difference what speed you drive at down a residential road as well are you?



These are good points but I would add that keeping to 70, instead of, say, 100, also makes the road safer for everyone. And if people weren't so desperate to speed and learnt to relax, then that would take away some of the stress as well.



I'm not bleating anymore than anyone else on here. And surely you know how easily I can turn that paragraph round to my point of view?

I'm not causing a rolling road-block to those drivers who stick to the speed limit. Drivers who speed irritate me, so why do it when it's so easy not to?

I'm not making it more dangerous for them, they're making it more dangerous by thinking that they are above the law and speeding. Keeping the speed of the traffic down is more likely to make it safer I would have said. If people just relax and slow down then we can all be happy!

I know I shouldn't be rising to it, but we know how good MLMs are at winding people up.


It does happen. That's all you need to know, because you're not the police. Just in case you missed it yet again: you're not the police, and thank goodness for that. You are there to go from A to B, being as safe and considerate as possible. Nothing else. Do you have delusions of grandeur? Do you have an unerring desire to control other people when you're not in charge? Do you like causing congestion? Does it give you a sense of power? Have you ever applied (and failed) to join the police?


Speeding on motorways is very often neither dangerous nor inconsiderate. It doesn't even affect other motorists. It's none of their business, except that lane hoggers choose to make it their business, because they're belligerent, bitter people who are always interfering. As I've already said, they should form their own little busybody nation away from the rest of us. But of course they wouldn't like it, because they can dish it out but they can't take it.


It's dangerous and woeful because it causes unnecessary conflicts, hazards and stress, among other things.


I'm not remotely arrogant, but I deeply despise deliberate lane hoggers, and I make no secret of it. The word "moron" in relation to lane hoggers was most certainly not coined by me, it's a well-known expression, and very apt.


No, but it's appropriate for someone who reads a 7-page thread and studiously ignores all the points which they can't answer. (Which reminds me, here we are once again: YOU ARE NOT THE POLICE.)


As above, not my word, I just happen to agree wholeheartedly with it.

Actually, maybe not. People who lane hog out of ignorance are morons. People who do it deliberately to block others are far, far worse. They're horrible, spiteful, warped individuals, and that's putting it very mildly.

Have you not thought that by deliberately lane hogging at any speed, you're not just frustrating "speeders" (i.e. those going faster than you), but, ultimately, everyone behind you? If you create a bottleneck then it won't just be people trying to overtake you who get held up. It's not as simple as that. Queues will ultimately be created and everyone will be caught in them. Or do you think that it's worth inconveniencing "non-speeders" to make sure that the "speeders" get what they deserve? As I said, warped. Distorted, mean-spirited and arse-about-face priorities. What an incredibly, monstrously selfish attitude (except that you don't even achieve anything for yourself either). It beggars belief.


My speed is no-one else's business, except the real police. Other people's speeds are not my business, as long as they're not in the wrong lane. It's really very simple.

Your incorrect driving has got absolutely nothing to do with "speeding" and you know it. That's just a convenient excuse. You won't have a trial period not lane hogging because you're just too darned spiteful, and the thought of being considerate and letting people past is anathema. Do you think that's normal? Most people's worst nightmares involve something bad happening to them. Your worst nightmares, I would think, involve something good happening to others. What does that say about you? Freud would be interested.

As well as having that sadistic streak, I would imagine that you're also very competitive and prone to jealousy, with an inferiority complex thrown in. You don't like anyone overtaking you, because they're beating you. No-one's ever allowed to outdo you, because you're special. Whatever speed you're going at, people should respect your authority by not going any faster. When you're going at 40 on single carriageway NSL roads, can you honestly say that you don't feel rage and resentment when someone tries to overtake you? Why do you think that is? (And before you cleverly say that the same thing applies to me, it absolutely does not; if someone wants to overtake me, I am only too happy for them to do so, and will do everything I possibly can to assist them: sensible, defensive, unemotional driving.)


As you know, I've already made points in this thread which have been openly appreciated by several people (thanks again for that!) Let me know when any respected poster agrees with anything that you spout.


Yep, you've got me.

The bottom line is this. Lane hogging morons/f*ckwits (delete as appropriate) aren't remotely interested in safety. If they were, they would be driving defensively and not aggressively. They would drive according to the Highway Code. And they would realise that their behaviour actually increased the likelihood of an accident, and accordingly drive properly. It's crystal clear that you care about none of those things.

Anyone who was really concerned about road safety would get involved in campaigns, write letters, and be prepared to learn things and accept that they don't know it all. I do all of those things; how about you? What do you do for road safety except counterproductive lane hogging? What weaknesses in your driving (other than lane hogging) have you identified and improved on in the last 5 years?

In the case of deliberate lane hoggers, they're just interested in petty one-upmanship and cutting their noses off to spite their faces. They get a little thrill every time they upset someone, and frequently go out of their way to do just that. They don't like to see other people having fun. They're nasty, small-minded, thoroughly unpleasant people who would rather do something negative to someone else than something positive for themselves. They're not far from being the lowest of the low, and they pollute the gene pool. I despise them, and if you're one of them, I despise you as well. You obviously haven't got a considerate bone in your body, and I doubt anyone will ever get through to you.

Now I've made myself perfectly clear, and there are plenty who broadly agree with me on the subject and know what's what. I'll let them reply to anyone who still doesn't (or pretends not to) get it.

One last thing: if we took the average IQ of lane hoggers and the average IQ of non-lane hoggers, is anyone truthfully in the slightest doubt as to who would come out on top? What does that tell us?

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

You say that you're not arrogant except that you continue to call me a moron, but you don't know me. Perhaps you should look up the word arrogant in the dictionary.




Oh yeah, I'm sure that's the reason for everyone breaking the speed limit.



And thank goodness you're not the police either because otherwise we'd have people driving at even more ridiculous speeds.



And you are there to do the same. That includes obeying the speed limit. Oh, sorry, I forgot that you're above the law.



No. Do you?



No. I just drive at the speed limit! Perhaps you should think about that for a while. You clearly have an unerring desire to control other people as you expect them to get out of your way.





So crashes and collisions have nothing whatsoever to do with speed? Ever heard of the word "moron"?



More name-calling. And I'm not interfering, I'm simply driving along at the speed limit. It's quite clearly you who is belligerent and bitter, based on how you are behaving towards someone who happens to disagree with you.



Er, I clearly can take it, or I wouldn't be on here. And anyway, that's such a meaningless thing to say.




And driving at 100 doesn't cause a hazard then? Or stress for other motorists who simply want to have a pleasant drive?




Er, right, well known in the land of the speeder.




I haven't read the whole of the thread. And I certainly haven't ignored, studiously or otherwise, any points that I might not be able to answer. You're just making that up. So go on, ask me something that you think I've ignored.

By the way, you are not above the law. I would put it in capitals but I'm not fuming as you clearly are. Perhaps you should try and calm down.




You won't believe this of course, but I'm actually a very nice person. Yes, really. It's because I care about the people killed or seriously injured on the roads that I want the traffic to slow down.

And I really don't consider that driving at the speed limit (in normal conditions of course), is dangerous.




So you really are that obstinate and hateful of other drivers that you won't even try it. Well well. And your speed is other people's business because it's making the motorway more dangerous for them.



And you won't have a trial period either so don't be such a complete hypocrite!!!



Er, you're just making stuff up again. You've simply got it the wrong way round in your attempt to moan at me.



Wrong! I'm actually really not that bothered if someone is better than me. And what's this about a "sadistic streak"??? Along with so many other of your comments, that really is just another random made-up comment.



Wrong again! I have no problem with people overtaking me. It's the speeding along with the utterly pathetic excuses that your type come out with. (By the way, if I were you, I really would give up on that psychology course you're doing, because you're clearly not learning anything.)



So you've asked me a question without even waiting for the answer. Along with all the other incorrect assumptions you've made, it's really not helping your argument.

In answer to the first question, apart from the fact that I would probably be doing the speed limit, no, I don't feel rage. You're clearly thinking about yourself again. You really should learn to relax, otherwise you will end up suffering a heart attack like Paul Smith did.






That I "spout"!!! Like so many, many other aggressive, arrogant drivers, you just can't help but try and put people down can you.

You didn't answer the second question: How is it halfway intelligent and reasonable to call people names?

As for comments being "openly appreciated", in a speeding club like this, what else would they say?!



So you've already decided that you won't accept it when someone agrees with something I've said because they have to be "respected"!!! And let me guess, anyone who has the same point of view as me won't be respected! How utterly lame of you!





It's not crystal clear at all. You're stuck in your ways and totally unwilling to even consider what someone else says. Firstly though, it really does show off what an aggressive and confrontational person you are by continuing to call me names.

If you were remotely interested in safety you would stick to the speed limit. You would drive according to the highway code. And you would realise that your behaviour actually increases the likelihood of an accident, and accordingly drive properly. It's crystal clear that you care about none of those things.



Oh, so speeding is about having fun now is it? And as I say earlier in this post, you really should give the psychology stuff a rest, because you're hopeless at it.




That's all very well, except that, if you knew me you would know that I'm a very nice person. So there goes another bit of your magazine psychology.



Oh please. So people who drive at the speed limit in the middle lane aren't far off being murderers and paedophiles? I mean really...



Oh don't worry, I despise you for being so aggressive, arrogant, selfish, confrontational...

As for having a considerate bone, I'm afraid I am a very considerate person. As I've already said in this post, I really do suggest that you drop all these lame, incorrect assumptions. You've been wrong so many times in the space of just one post it's getting embarassing.




But that first sentence just shows how stupid you are (and so arrogant), because you don't seem to have the slightest realisation that on a speeding site people are natually going to agree with you.



Another completely made-up (and arrogant) point.

You mean the ~5% of people who are killed by "exceeding the speed limit"?

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Andrew.

I apologise to everyone else for indulging the troll, who is obviously missing "that" forum. I'm surprised we haven't had more from there. The heart attack reference was especially low even for one of them (well, most of them). I'm 100% satisfied that this person is just a windup merchant and fully realises the absurdity of their stated position. There is no such thing as a deliberate lane hogger who is against aggression, confrontation, danger etc. If they didn't practise all those things then they wouldn't be a deliberate lane hogger.

I hereby resolve not to reply to anyone whose stated position contradicts itself, or who answers everything by either copying what the quoted poster said, or saying "But you speed so your point is invalid [even though there's no evidence that normal speeding causes accidents]".

This forum has been open for 3.5 years, and we're still looking for someone who can rationally, intelligently and truthfully defend scamera enforcement, lane-hogging, parking enforcement, etc. How many times have we heard the same old fallacies? How many times have these people failed to answer basic questions? Every day without a coherent counter-argument just strengthens our case.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

Yeah, as soon as I see more than a screen's length of quotes, I give up.

To be fair there's not much saving this one. He/she doesn't seem to be able to get beyond the desire to meddle in other people's daily lives.

And, hjeg1, the reason you keep getting called a moron as that it saves writing 'middle lane moron' every time. If you continue to drive in the middle lane when there is no need, especially if you think that by doing so you are 'teaching other motorists a lesson', then you are a middle lane moron, or 'moron' for short.

I don't suppose you've missed out on a website devoted to you and your equally indisciplined fellow morons, is there?

http://www.middlelanemorons.com

Browse the gallery, you might be on there!

Yeah, yeah, I'm fairly sure that hjeg1 is a troll, but lets try this one.

Simple questions that require simple answers.

Have you ever exceeded the speed limit on any type of road?

If no, how can you be 100% certain?

Have you ever been involved in an accident caused by a motorist who was exceeding the speed limit?

Have you ever been involved in an accident caused by someone changing lanes?

Do you have a clean driving licence?

How many motorway miles do you do in an average year?

What motorways to you use the most (so we can all avoid them)?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

HJeg1:

Two wrongs do not make a right.

If you don't agree with speeding, then don't speed (or try not to - I do this, but I admit that there are occasions when I drift over the limit, albeit fleetingly.). Don't try to "educate" other road users, it's not your place to do so, and enraging other road users could have serious consequences. All you should do is try to set a (good) example.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

The attitude displayed by the caller to the JV show, and by certain posters to this thread should serve as a warning to anyone who is of the view that the rules of the road should be couched in vague and loose terms to give the more (ahem) experienced drivers a freer rein to use the roads in a way that others might think is illegal.
If the rules are vague or not even expressed as rules but as guidlines, people with diametrically opposed mindsets will choose to interpret them differently, it is human nature and is inevitable. And when you have people using the same stretch of road but driving with completely different mental models of what constitutes proper behaviour you have a catlyst for road rage and a genuine road safety disaster.
Properly couched rules (not guidlines) as to what drivers should do in certain predeterminable situations (like which lane you should be driving in) will at least serve notice to the MLMs that they are now behaving as illegally as the 'speeders' they appear to believe it is their right to demonstrate their disapproval of.

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Long time no see Jeff.
That was a balanced post. We must remember that the rules should be set towards the spirit of the law (safety and consideration). It’s my opinion that many drivers don’t believe there’s any reason why other drivers can’t drive (not too much) above 70 on free-flowing motorways; I don’t believe the same could be said for lane hogging.

A small aside:
Speedos can be wildly inaccurate. I’m currently driving courtesy car of which the speedo under-reads by over 10% at 30mph (confirmed by GPS and speed gun), which is really impressive considering they’re not meant to under-read at all.


I take exception to this, many others would too.
This is not a 'speeding club'. Perhaps you should read the SafeSpeed manifesto.




I think many people’s posting styles reflect their driving styles. The content within some posts in this thread are borne out of some personal satisfaction, rather than trying to add anything constructive to the debate.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign