Safe Speed Forums

On my bike (motorbike) in a 30 limit. Road ahead narrows down to one lane due to a parked car on our side. The cars in front of me stop to allow traffic coming the other way to pass. We are just about to move off when I hear a screech of tyres and a van (white) slithers to a stop to my left hand side, the driver sat right next to me. Somewhat startled by this, my immediate reaction was: "What the f**k are you doing?" reply: "sorry mate." Me: "Try putting the F**ing sandwhich down you F**king D***head."

That is an exact transcript of what was said as it is still vivid in my mind.

Of course it would have been his fault if he had hit me, and if I had of been in car he would have; the fact that I was on a bike gave him room to slither down the side of me. I realised afterwards that I hadn't seen him coming as I should have, and had I of seen him coming I may have been able to move out of his way. We have discussed this one before and I know that one of the posters' wives' was badly injured (Mad Moggie I think) and I apologise if it brings it all out again, but I had a close one today and have learnt from it. I do normally check when stopping that the vehicle behind is able to stop and is going to, but I am obviously not as diligent as I should be. In addition as I was riding later, I wished that instead of tearing the guy a new a**ehole I had politely asked him to learn from the experience, because I'm pretty sure he won't have!

Ironically I was out for a ride to put into practice some of my Motorcycle R
oadcraft (Christmas present from the wife) You know the bit about 'take information, use information, give information.' Well the information I gave, probably wasn't what the author had in mind.

Max

_________________
Tailgaters - Please Pass
You have an Accident to go to!

I'm glad to hear it was a miss. I know you know we see those as learning opportunities.

I stop way back from the obstruction if there's nothing behind. Often 100 feet even in an urban situation, and often 200 yards in a rural situation. In such a position there's no chance that you'll forget to monitor the mirror.

When something does appear in the mirror, I trickle forwards while ensureing the the vehicle behind is doing the right thing and slowing. If he isn't slowing I can easily accelerate and drive forwards. I don't regard one vehicle behind as a sufficient buffer, and I'll still stop well short and position so that I can see the road behind the one behind in one or more of the mirrors and continue to monitor. Once there are four or five behind I relax until we get moving again.

Even when closeish to the vehicle in front - (say 8 feet, that's about as close as I go except for parking, (or occasionally to let someone use a driveway by moving behind me)) - I look for the best escape to the left or the right. There's usually somewhere to go.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Glad it was only a near miss for you Max.

Almost a year a go i was stopped at traffic lights at South St junction in Oakham, handbrake on, in neutral, cars length back from white line, waiting for lights to change. Making occasional checks to rear but as lights had been on red for some time i was keeping more of an eye out on them, heard a skid and before i could work out which direction sound coming from i was shunted a cars length forward.

Weather was dry and sunny, 18 year old lad in his Fiat Punto just not paying attention, his car written off ( and only had 3rd party insurance ) mine needed rear wing, tailgate, bumper, and straightening out!

Did jump out of car and have a bit of a shout, but soon calmed down, no one hurt. just thankful that there where no pedestrians or cyclists in front of me when he hit.

I always try to leave at least a cars length in front of me, and if i last car in queue i now leave even more ( like Paul i leave considerable gap out of town ), constantly monitoring mirror and if anyone seems not to be slowing down i tap brake lights and ready to put into 1st and move forward.

Was out on my bike yesterday too, may have seen you around?

Thanks for the reply's. Paul is right and if you can do that every single time then all credit to you; it is something I will aim to do. Funny how we only really learn when we are involved in either an accident or a near miss. But as we have found out not everyone does learn and will continue to repeat their mistakes. I feel sure the van driver is a tailgater and he knows no different. He won't have considered that had he kept a safer distance he would have had time to react. His concentration and observation were also lacking, but will he have learned from that near miss? I don't think so.

As an aside, similar to your accident SCE, my sister was in an accident, last year including the boy racer in the hot hatch. Only thing is she was shunted into a car infront of her. The insurance seemed straight forward enough until the woman in the car in front changed her story after the event and claimed my sister hit her before she was shunted by boy racer, go figure? Must be one of those 'screw the bastards' solicitors who figured she would get a better payout if she was hit twice. Two lots of whiplash obviously! Anyway I mentioned to my sister at the time that she could have taken steps to avoid the accident and she thought I was mad. Seems it takes quite a leap of faith for people to change the way they drive, she is fifty after all! When I was a small boy, my mum had the presence of mind to pull our mini van onto the grass verge when she saw a truck unable to stop in her rear view mirror; the truck hit the car that had been infront of her! Anyway it shows that the skill isn't new it just isn't reinforced / taught.

SCE, might have seen you, I rode up to Louth, had lunch and came back, nice ride out.
Max

_________________
Tailgaters - Please Pass
You have an Accident to go to!

Lucky escape

_________________
'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

Crikey Max, a close shave indeed.
I had a similar one in a car a few years back when the A417 Cirencester bypass was being built. Stopped at roadworks traffic lights, skidding sound from behind, some guy in a Rover yakking on his mobile appeared alongside me.

But I too had a narrow squeek on my bike on Wednesday. Was riding between Bridgenorth and Wolverhampton, good road punctuated with plenty of passing opportunities. Moved to pass a green Fiat people carrier thingy but the driver simultaneously closed the gap on the vehicle in front of him to a couple of feet and moved out towards the crown of the road. I ended up momentarily right in the middle of the road with a truck coming the other way so I had to drop back in behind him.
Could somebody please explain to me the mentality of this kind of individual, because I can't align myslef to it at all Would he have been happier if I'd wound up in the hedge or under the wheels of a vehicle coming the other way?
I ended up staying behind him for a quite few miles which proved to be quite intersting because we both wound up going the same way - bypassing Wolves to get to the A41. I was unintentionally following him (honest ) for a good few miles; the woman in the passenger seat kept taking anxious glances back in my direction and then turning to the driver. I love to think that she was giving him a rollocking for being such an arse and that I was waiting for an opportunity to grab hold of him and rip his throat out (which was what I'd felt like doing in my initial shock).
Learning opportunity: Watch the 'body language' of the vehicle you are passing and bug-out if the driver looks like he's decided to play god with your life.

If he was able to do that then either you have a very low powered bike, or you had preselected too small a return gap.

There are three problems with choosing a small return gap:

1) The gap can disappear before you get there.
2) You're selecting a tailgater to follow you.
3) The small return gap may be a warning that the chap you're planning to overtake may also be planning to overtake. WATCH OUT! He may pull out into the side of you.

Solutions:

Pick a larger return gap.
Get a faster bike.
Develop your overtaking technique (there's an awful lot that can be learnt about overtaking).

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Larger return gap - agreed
Faster bike - A Honda VFR750 isn't fast enough then? 'Tis for me Actually didn't use the full capabilities of the bike during this maneouvre, didn't expect the guy I was passing to behave like a moron.
Overtake technique - Probably goes with the gap thing, but prolly right here too.

If you are going to overtake is it not best to maybe turn your lights on so people see you approaching more easily from the rear and can see you coming if you are overtaking a line of cars also with the indicator still on?

Andrew

_________________
It's a scam........or possibly a scamola


Homer Simpson

I like your thinking

But seriously on the overtaking issue, us bikers overtake a lot more than us car drivers (see how I cleverly put myself in both categories there?) and you do have to watch the body language of the guys you are passing. We frequently pass many cars at a time which is due to the rapid acceleration (0-60 in 3.5 seconds) and this is safe providing you treat each vehicle separately and give yourself options, as the chances are they haven't seen you. It's a good point about the guy you are passing having no safety gap, as Paul says it's either because he is an arse in which case you don't want him on your ass, or he's waiting for an opportunity to overtake and he wont have seen said opportunity as early as you did. Good stuff though and like the man said all learning opportunuties.

And yes he seriously was talking to me with a sandwhich in his hand!! ffs.

Max

_________________
Tailgaters - Please Pass
You have an Accident to go to!

Glad you are OK! Difficult to stay calm when you had a fright anyway. Daft to eat when you drive - choking danger in a "suddenly" situation - which is what happened to him. May well have told him where I would place that butty if it had been me!

No worries - mate. Wildy recovered and leads a normal life. Of course, there are the odd little things where we need to be more careful with her health. Wildy herself posted her history herself when answering a post elsewhere. Sometimes - if the idiot approaches to fast - no amount of inching forwards may save you.

In Wildy'case - any one of the cars - including the BiB and the hard shoulder could have been hit. It was pure bad luck that Wildy's car took the full brunt.

What did she learn from this? Well, she always chooses L1 if she thinks she will be last car in an m/way jam so that she can move into the hard shoulder and get out of the way, if she thinks something will hit her. You see her tense just slightly and glue into the rear mirror on constant alert in this situation. And relax once at least five cars are behind her in the queue.

She does not normally attract tailgaters on the motorway (She drives at an appropriate speed whenever she can ) But in town - she turns off, pulls in if they are persistent - and she has one fave site to ditch them if she can. A Gatso which sits a few yards further on from a garage forecourt has made some money from Wildy's tailgaters in the past. She keeps them at 25-27mph, pulls into the forecourt and then watches the ping as they accelerate!