Safe Speed Forums

I was travelling East on the M65, theres an unlit section for a few miles, 11.30pm, 3 lanes, very light traffic.

I was travelling quite quickly, safe for the conditions. I came up on a vehicle in lane 3 travelling about 60 mph, nothing whatsoever in lanes 1 or 2 and nothing in front as far as the eye could see.

I slowed down and moved to lane 3 behind the vehicle. We travelled about half a mile and it was clear he didn't want to move to allow me to overtake.

I flashed. What happened next was unbelievable. He braked so hard his rear wheels locked and he nearly hit the central barrier. I braked hard and narrowly avoided a collision. Then he did it again, locked his wheels up again, I braked hard again and we were both slowed to about 20 mph.

I moved to lane 1 quickly and accelerated past him.

In the shock of it I didn't get his number, I just wanted to get past and out of his way asap as it was obvious he was a lunatic.

It was 1 flash, not in fustration or trying to intimidate.

Was I right moving in behind him in lane 3, should I just have undertook in lane one?

So long as you didn't close on him very rapidly, follow him closely and then flash him, I can't see what you did that was open to much criticism.

It might have been better to give the headlight flash well before you settled down to his speed, following at a good distance behind, as this seems less likely to be seen as impatient and aggressive.

With the benefit of hindsight it would seem that the better course would have been to continue past him in lane 1 with a modest speed differential, and keeping a wary eye on him.

Please understand that none of this is meant as criticism. It's more a matter of thinking about what might minimise the risk of such upsets in future. Even if your actions were slightly questionable - and I'm not suggesting they were - what the other fellow did was complete lunacy. It just goes to show how easily we can find ourselves in conflict with people.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Given the fact that the driver was going along in L3 of an otherwise empty section of motorway I would assume he / she / it was there for a reason, or at least they thought it was a reason. Thinking of almost all possible explanations I quickly came up with:

They're trying to enforce their speed on anyone else by "blocking" L3 - an unofficial policing of the limits,
They don't realise that they're not supposed to be there when L1 and L2 are empty (ignorance),
They're nervous of joining traffic from slip roads and want to stay well away from L1,
They're drunk and want to avoid L1 for similar reasons as above,
They're foreign and have got confused late at night about L1 / L3?
They're a doddery old f*rt who doesn't really know what they're doing.
They're waiting for someone to tailgate / flash them (not saying what you did was dangerous, but it could have been seen as intimidating by some) so that they can react to it - for what end? Who knows? Maybe they're on drugs? Maybe they just want a crash for some strange thrill? Love the adrenaline? Insurance scam - "he ran into the back of me officer, now check out my whiplash."

Given the light conditions you describe and the car's low speed (for a mway) I would probably have been tempted to observe the car for a while from L1 and then pass it in L1, still keeping a close eye for any problematic movements to L2 - being ready to boot it past once level with them. This, of course, depends on how far in advance I was able to see the vehicle in question, and my view of the road ahead. Also only if I knew I could stay in L1 for a good distance once this pass had been completed and there was no danger of having to quickly move out into L2 and potentially L3 to face an angry driver tailgating (who knows what's going on in their mind) dangerously in reaction to my move.

illegal. its classed as causing an obstruction

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Richie

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True, but there's no cameras for it so it's okay.

I would never have left L1.

Something similar happened to me on the M5 about 15 years ago, and the car in L3 gave me a long peep on the horn as I sailed past in L1.

Not such a no-brainer on a DC, but on a MWay the buffer of L2 makes this the safest course of action; as you have found, doing the 'right' thing relies on someone already driving very badly responding in a predictable fashion.

"Insurance scam"

Certainly very popular on the M65.

But very unlikely at high speeds and on the main carriageway. They usually target drivers at lower speeds on the slip roads and at roundabouts.

I too would never have left L1.

I see so many people on the motorways who will stick in L2/L3/L4 (M25) that I will now pass them quite happily in L1 while keeping a good eye on them.

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Prepare to be Judged

Same here, with 2 lanes plus hard shoulder passing in L1 would have been perfectly safe and acceptable (even if not legal).

This kind of thing boils my piss. Idiots like that should be removed from the roads straight away until they prove that they have corrected their attitude. The number of accidents they cause both directly and indirectly (e.g. by "shaking people up") must be significant.

And yet, they blinking well get away with it because of appallingly misdirected resources. MondeoST24, you have my sympathy.

actually it is legal providing you do not pull in front of the car in L3 after passing it. undertaking is passing on the inside and then moving in front of the vehicle you have passed. passing on the inside is passing the vehicle without actually overtaking (as in L1 is moving quicker than L2 in slow moving traffic).

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Richie

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So - if you are sitting in L3 WITH a shower of pillocks in front - all at 60 , and you decide to go into L2, speed up to 70 , move up past a few , find a gap in L3 and then get back into L3 to miss a queue in L2 ,then that's illegal ?????

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

technically, yes. that is overtaking on the inside. if you do that manouvre without moving back into L3 after passing them then it is not illegal although you may be pulled for a chat.

incidentally, the reason i know this is because i asked this question regarding trucks in L1 passing a middle lane hogger in L2. obviously i will not disclose the recipient of my query but the reply was basically that if an officer witnessed it, the middle lane hogger would be pulled over for obstruction and the truck driver MAY be pulled over afterwards IF the manouvre was considered dangerous

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Richie

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How far do you have to travel before moving back out and it is not considered undertaking? It's a grey area and I for one would like to see it made legal because of the congestion not undertaking causes.

Oh ... wait ... never going to happen is it with the government wanting to increase congestion.

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Prepare to be Judged

i cant give an answer to that one but i would imagine that it depends more on how you do it rather than distance. if you simply cruise past at 70 then move back over after say.....100 yards or so then you would be ok. however, if you drop a cog or 2 and plant your right foot and cut them up then you are asking for trouble. i would imagine it would be down to driving style rather than a preset distance although this is purely up to the officer on the spot at the time

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Richie

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I too wouldn't have left lane 1.

In fact I don't ever unless I absolutely have to.

I don't actually like being in lane 3, but I use it if I need to.

Tell you what really microwaves my bladder though, is when I have used lane 3 and want to retire to lane 1 'cos there's bags of space there, but can't because of all the 2@'s bunched up in lane 2!!! Then I end up looking like one of the lane 3 owners group!!

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If I have to explain you won't understand.

If you go to lane 3, presumably you did so to pass something in lane 2. You therefore are moving faster than the L2 candidates, erven if there's a multitude - so I see no problem.

Me? I like lane 3. Unlike lane 1, nothing can be a hazard from the offside (unless it crosses the centrral barrier) and so the observation scan has had a big chunk taken out of it, meaning the scan can be completed as thoroughly but faster... Safer all round.

That's a very good point. L2 seems very popular and yet is the one where you have to be alert for lane changes from both sides. Go figure.

Most (?) discerning drivers that I know are L3 progressors, but never are in it if you want to go faster than them - their observation and anticipation skills allow them to blend in to L2 (or L1) easily for a while to let others go by. In fact, unless you yourself were looking perhaps 20 - 30 seconds ahead, you'd not have realised they made way for you. They're that good. And no, that's not how they're taught to pass their test. It's how they've evaluated their best positrion for appropriate safe progress with minimal risk all round (including to third parties).

interestingly, i had one of these muppets last night. 2 lane motorway (Scotland ) and i was in L1 catching up with someone in L2. i was doing 70, he was doing around 55/60. i didnt even hesitate. i kept an eye on him as i sailed by in L1. there was nothing else around so he had no reason to be in L2 and i had no reason to change lanes before or after encountering this nugget

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Richie

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