Safe Speed Forums

First version:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... ge_id=1770

New speed camera blitz to target 'roads with no accident history'

by RAY MASSEY

Last updated at 18:29pm on 17th May 2007

Motorists face a random speed camera blitz under new laws that give police the power to site them on roads with no history of accidents.

Under new Government regulations, mobile police squads will set up randomly to catch "surfing" drivers who slow down at camera sites before speeding up again.

The aim is to create "uncertainty" in the minds of drivers and promote the sense that they could be prosecuted at any time in any place.

It is set to accelerate the number of drivers with points on their licence from six million to 10 million.

The move comes as insurance bosses say that the proliferation of speed cameras is now so widespread that getting points on your licence is no longer an indication that a driver is a greater risk on the road - and that even motorists with up to nine points may not pay any more for their premiums.

Police in Cumbria are set to be the first county to take advantage of a recent relaxation in the rules governing the positioning of cameras.

Mobile camera teams will be able to operate on any road and will sometimes work in pairs, with camera vans placed a mile or two apart, to catch drivers who accelerate back over the speed limit.

Other speed camera partnerships - usually comprising the police, local councils, magistrates and road safety groups - are expected to adopt a similar approach if it improves road safety.

Until last month, police and local authority partnerships were forced to focus almost all their enforcement on roads where there had been at least three crashes resulting in death or serious injury in the previous three years.

But new guidance from the Department for Transport gives the police much greater discretion over how they use cameras.

Cumbria Safety Cameras said it was seeking "to create uncertainty in the driver's mind about where cameras will be".

It said it had cut deaths and serious injuries by 70 per cent at its 50 fixed camera sites but has found that serious crashes have risen elsewhere.

There were 59 deaths last year, up from 45 in 2005.

A spokesman for the speed-camera group said: "We need to tackle the behaviour of drivers who attempt to manipulate the system.

"The random element will mean drivers can never be sure that they will not come across a camera on a particular road.

"If they pass one camera van, they will have to think twice about putting their foot down because there could be another van down the road."

He said that Cumbria was adopting the new policy after studying research from Queensland, Australia, which showed that random camera deployment was twice as effective at reducing crashes as focusing on well-known sites.

Ministers have insisted that cameras are there for road safety, rather than raise cash.

That is why - under pressure - both they and the police have allowed drivers to have satellite positioning systems, which alerts them when they are approaching cameras sited at accident black spots, and reminding them to keep to the limit.

However, Cumbria's random approach means that these systems will no longer be as effective

Cumbria's own research found that 15 per cent slowed down only briefly at a camera site on a 40mph road.

This group approached the site at a speed of at least 48mph, slowed down to just under the speed limit for 300 yards before accelerating to at least 52mph.

Insurance bosses say they no longer assume that drivers with points on their licence are a greater risk on the road, because they are becoming so commonplace.

With more than 6,000 speed cameras on Britain's roads catching an estimated two million speeders each year, an unblemished licence is becoming rare.

The number of drivers with points exceeds six million - and is on course to top 10 million.

More than a million motorists are now just one conviction away from losing their driving licences while the number of drivers on the brink of losing licences has risen by more than 215,000 in the last 12 months alone.

The Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety said: "Other authorities will be under pressure to follow Cumbria's lead if the policy works."

But Paul Smith of road safety group SafeSpeed said: "Modern road safety policy, particularly speed cameras, criminalises millions and actually increases road deaths."

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

This has turned into a childish, obsessive game. They must win at ANY cost!



Great! That’s a good safety policy!

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

Sounds like they're trying to whip up frenzy to me.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Call it a death rattle. It was to be expected.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Yep. Totally barking. You can almost see the steam coming out of their ears.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Who's ears in particular??!!


(Sorry,... ok,.... my bad...... )

'Death Rattle'

I like it. I was thinking the very same when I read the article (not that I buy the mail you all understand!!)

This is a last stand!

At the end of the day they now have to fund camears from their own budget, when the deaths still don't fall the spending will vanish.

great move. Even less concentrating on what really matters...


"As they are depriving of us income!"





My, that's mighty kind of them to allow us to have satnav!

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Well CSCP really have moved the goalposts havent they? But hang on, isn't this what real police have always been able to do - enforce any limit on any road etc etc

What CSCP have forgotten to mention is the major cutbacks announced in Cumbria Traffic dept ("Mobile Support Group" to give it its PC title) due to budget cuts and transferring officers to anti terrorist duties.

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That's how Nazi Germany started. They'll be burning books next. (Brian Noble, Wigan coach - updated 20/4/06!!).

I notice my moronic friend is getting all excited over on the C+ forum.
Bless him .

And surely, following the end of the hypothecation scheme, the overall amount of resources devoted to Talivan activity will fall, even though some of them may be stationed in different places.

And how many people know the regular Talivan hiding places anyway, apart maybe from a few in their local area?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

err, why Australia?
Back when we had a falling fatality rate in Cumbria, the POLICE used to place cameras all over the place as and when they were needed, and until recently, still did!
So the police are set to take the blame for this?

Did the CSCP get a jolly out to Australia to study how they did it?

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I dont suppose that has anything to do with the 7 million+ visitors who come to the county each year?
And how many accidents involve speeding above the posted limit?
According to the police, on the A591 between Kendal and Windermere, it is THREE percent.

This latest scam smacks of a person resorting to quackery, pseudoscience, or some knowingly employed bogus means of impressing people in order to swindle his victims by selling them worthless nostrums or services that will not deliver on the promises made for them.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I have to ask: are you 'Tourist Tony' of C+ or have you simply chosen your username in honour of him?

Out of the utmost respect for him of course .

ok so Cumbria are a test case for a free far all in mobile enforcement, can anyone clarify how many routes that CSCP cover and its current operational staff, compared to the total road network in the area

i am being guided to 2 working practices

1. CSCP use taliban tactics, quick hit and away, maybe an hour at each area
2. a huge increase in staff / equipment to cover these additional areas

3. - Max number of vans - they can't be everywhere at once -so that reduces the odds and starts to make a mockery of the tactics - especially with two vans per site- if that's what they're trying to do.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

How do you define "if it works". Does that mean reducing road deaths or increasing the number of convictions.

Cumbria have already proved that they have failed in the first instance already

Remember income from some cameras has plummeted. I suspect they are under pressure to get the conviction rate up now they are collecting for the treasury.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Presumably the intended daily locations of these 'safety vans' will be published?