Safe Speed Forums

[ This topic split from: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... 348#127348 ]

Funnily enough I have a "thing" about drivers wearing hats - of any sort - but ONLY if they are driving CLOSED cars.

I will, myself, wear a cap or bandana when I have the roof down - if for no other reason that, being a "slaphead", I don't want to get sunburnt

_________________
I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

A few drivers wear baseball caps when driving against low sun - I do it myself, and recommend it highly. These days I always keep one within reach of the driving position. (But many modern baseball hats with curved peaks just don't work. You need one with a flat peak.)

In other circumstances seeing a driver in a hat is frequently a warning sign. Why on earth would that be? What could possibly cause the apparent correlation between hat wearing and bad driving?

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

This is my view too. There must be some psychological reason that anyone who would wear a hat in a closed car appears to be a poor driver.

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

When I started driving, some 40-odd years ago, my father warned always to keep an extra-sharp eye on drivers who wore hats, especially Trilbies... His warning seems to be as correct today as it was in those dim-and-distant days!

His theory was that "hat-wearing drivers" were essentially "pedestrians in cars" who failed to modify their views and habits to those of "motorists" when they got behind the wheel.

_________________
"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

As an ex military person who was forced to wear a hat in a closed car by uniform regulations, I can tell you why I objected to this, and how I obtained dispensation that allowed me to proceed legally "sans titfer"!

My hat had a peak that kept getting in the way of my vision. Every time I tried to look over my right shoulder, the peak would catch the door pillar. At the best this was distracting, at the worst I had a hat completely covering my eyes. If I looked down at my instruments, the peak obscured my view ahead. If I looked ahead, the peak obscured my view of the mirror. In short the thing was dangerous.

Now to how I got that dispensation: I arrived at barracks having forgotten to replace my lid before hoving into sight of the gate. The officer of the day (OOD) gave me hell and ordered me not to drive unhatted again. In a flash of possibly foolhardy inspiration, I told him that I couldn't obey his order because it was unlawful because it unnecessarily compromised both my safety and the safety of others. He repeated his order and told me I'd be on a charge if I didn't comply. I ended up in front of the CO, who was a little more sympathetic and pragmatic than the jobsworth OOD and got an "excused hats in vehicles" chit

So, perhaps the reason why hat-wearing drivers are often poor drivers is that the hat acts a bit like a mobile "killer pillar".

_________________
Will

I suspect that it may be more down to kind of person who wears a hat by choice. (So being forced to because you're in the army, or wearing one out of necessity due to low sun doesn't count)

I tend to find that hat wearers have a high likelyhood of conforming to the stereotype associated with that hat, so trilbies and flat caps will be worn by some doddering old guy for whom last time he saw a car in his rear view mirror it had a starting handle. The big floppy bonnet will be being worn by some middle aged blonde who is more concerned about a profitable divorce settlement and thinks that the rules of lane discipline and priority apply only to other people... and then there's the burberry baseball cap crew.

I'm not normally one to bang on about stereotypes, except when using them for illustrative examples, but with hats it seems to be mostly true.

And then on top of that we have the safety implications of some of these hats as mentioned above.

Actually, I am often a hat wearer when a pedestrian. When the weather is cold and/or wet, I wear a wide brimmed felt hat, and when it is hot and sunny I wear a panama/linen cap/bandana. This is quite simply because, as one who is "follically challenged", you lose a lot of heat through the bare pate, and also can get a nasty burn/heat stroke. BUT I always take my hat OFF when indoors (I feel it is somehow bad manners to keep it on), and quite naturally do the same when in a closed car. I can (sort of) see that in the old days of unheated cars, people might have needed hats in cold weather but that can't be true with even quite old cars nowadays.

So: what is the mentality of someone who wears a hat indoors?

_________________
I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

I'm with the baseball cap - you can twist it too to mask the sun when it's either side of the sun visor.

NEVER turned backwards however!!
In winter, being bereft of hair at the back of my head, I wear a woolen hat to keep my head from radiating heat if it's not sunny - in which case it's my winter corduroy baseball cap.

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Bad manners? Is that the link with bad driving? Sounds like it could be.

But the next question would have to be: Why should it be 'bad manners' to wear a hat indoors / in the car?

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Being in a car would not be regarded as being indoors.

It's very hard to see this topic as anything different from a generalised prejudice against the elderly, tbh.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Frankly, I suspect taking one's hat off indoors (for men) is merely a "convention". However, this type of minor "manners" convention is, perhaps, the sort of thing that reveals a desire on behalf of someone to behave in an "appropriate" manner. I don't mean behaving in a "conventional" manner - I'm scarely conventional myself - but showing a consideration for the sensibilities of others?

So, for example, someone wearing a "chav" hat, may be revealling attitudinal traits of the "**** you" variety, and the "old fogey in trilby" may actually be doing something very similar - of the "I'm happy with what I'm doing so **** you" type?

_________________
I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

The hypothesis: "Hat wearing drivers tend to be bad drivers" seems to have some support in our collective experience.

Since the quality of a driver is based on 'various mental parameters' and the choice to wear a hat is based on 'various mental parameters', it's far from impossible that (some) bad driving and (some) hat wearing have a cause in common.

I find that absolutely fascinating and about a million miles from "a generalised prejudice against the elderly". Are you having a bad day?

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

No, but it is a fact that the majority of people who wear hats of the trilby type are over 60. Also a higher proportion of over-60s will tend to be poor drivers of the "too slow" type than those under 60. You tend to notice the "too fast when not appropriate" type less as you're not normally stuck behind them.

So the question has to be asked, are over-60 drivers with hats noticeably worse than those without, or is the wearing of a hat a convenient shorthand for "dithering coffin-dodger ahead"?

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Peter, my "prejudice" (or is it an observationally-based caution?) against hat-wearers in closed cars is anything but confined to the elderly. See my last post...

_________________
I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

... but I *am* elderly...

_________________
"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

A slight aside in this thread - and I'm not sure if it furthers the debate, but it makes me smile when I remember it... My father, God rest his soul, used to relate many things of his father, of whom he was proud (who died when i was pre-school).

One of the many anecdotes he tells me was during the war when my father and grandfather were in church. Apparently a bloke walked in and didn't take his hat off. My grandfather went up to him and said words to effect "Take your f***g hat off. Don't you know you're in God's house, c**t?"

From what I see here, in and around Crewe, there are two types of motorist who wear hats - the young wearing baseball caps, presumably to keep them warm because they have shaved off all their hair, and the old wearing tweed caps or trilbys to keep them warm because they have lost all theirs.

I have to say that my age puts me into the latter camp, and I have less hair than I used to have but it's still there to a large extent, and although I wear a cap when walking outside, (especially in a cold wind), , when I'm in the car I take it off so I don't look like a typical oldie in a car !!

_________________
Good manners maketh a good motorist

aside from hat, why do people wear coats and scaves in cars? My car, it is fair to say, is not the most solubriously (sp) equipt, but it does sport a heater. I also run a bit cold, but would never dream of wearing anything more bulky than a sweatshirt while driving.

Probably because the average car heater will come nowhere near warming up a car during the course of an average journey.

And driving a car from cold in shirtsleeves in the middle of winter is mental. I have seen it quoted on good scientific authority that getting into a freezing car without warm clothing can cause traumatic shock, greatly increasing the risk of stroke and heart attack.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Ah! ..... You know Paul, I think you've solved my problem!...

I am req'd by my employer to drive a Vauxhall Combo for my sins.........

Have you seen the height of those windscreens?....

Unless you're 6ft 4" minimum, the sun blinds are useless! I shall be wearing my "Glenfiddich" cap from now on on my way home against the evening sun......