Safe Speed Forums

In years gone by I did shift work and sometimes commuted on a 100cc bike. On my journey I had to pass through a t-junction with lights. Only as I was exiting the minor road the lights only changed if there was a vehicle waiting, and there wasn't enough pig iron in the Suzuki to trip it. So from then on I rode through the red with due dilligence - you could see if anything was approaching for 1/4 mile and more. And yes one morning I got seen by a cop sat in his car waiting for his shift to finish, it was 5.45am. When he pointed out I had just ridden through a red traffic light I simply said 'What traffic?', and you can tell how long ago it was because he laughed and said 'fair enough'. I then explained about the none detecting detector and he said there are a few like that.

Barkstar

_________________
The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.

It really worries me that so many people put jumping red lights morally at the same level as speeding.

OK, so it might look harmless on a roundabout around a motorway junction, but in town most traffic lights are also pedestrian crossings. The extended red light phases we're seeing aren't just to 'cause congestion', they're to give pedestrians a fighting chance of crossing. Once a junction gets a reputation for red-light-jumping all the authorities will do is extend the red even more to give said pedestrians their turn.

How are parents supposed to teach their kids to cross the road? A ten-year-old can understand the absolute Green = safe, red = dangerous but not the 'Green = might be safe but some idiot might cross anyway'.

It seems to me now that at most junctions with lights (and at pelican crossings ) at least one driver will ignore the red light regardless of traffic levels and time of day. That implies that a majority of drivers do it, and they're beginning to think it's their right - how often have you stopped at an amber (yes, you are supposed to stop on amber) and got abuse from the driver behind?

[edit] I rarely drive, I'm usually on a motorbike - and yes, I do sometimes have to cross on a red when the lights don't detect me.

Green does NOT mean its safe to cross though. Green means that its your right of way. Slightly different. As a pedestrian I ALWAYS either wait for the traffic to come to a complete stop or look both ways to make sure I'm not going to get flattened.

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

But if the traffic lights are only put in to cause congestion, then why should anyone treat them with respect? Where I live, the LA has consistently screwed traffic flow down and down and so we now have people routinely ignoring NO LEFT TURN, NO RIGHT TURN, BUSES ONLY, Traffic lights etc. signs.

And to be honest, I don't blame them a bit!

The LA's seem to forget that they are here to SERVE US, not deliberately bugger things up for us.

_________________
Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

(probably doesn’t deserve that smiley cos it’s so dammed obvious)

Green does not mean you can walk into the road with your eyes closed and expect to get to the other side safely.

Likewise, green for a driver's phase does not mean 'go because it must be safe'.


I always check for approaching all directions before passing into a traffic light controlled junction for which I have right of way.
People, and the technology they create, aren’t infallible.

What do you mean by speeding? Are we talking SAFELY doing 40mph in a 30mph or recklessly doing 40mph outside a school at 3.30pm?



So would you agree that it is OK to break the law when it is safe to do so?

_________________
Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Aww



(probably doesn’t deserve that smiley cos it’s so dammed obvious)

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I always take a green (as a pedestrian or as a driver ) as go,BUT only if safe to do so .HC advice is to check traffic has stopped (check the traffic has stopped then cross with care)

I got some photos!

Photo 1
Photo 2
Photo 3

Unfortunately before I had a chance to get one with a car stopped at the lights the police stopped to ask what I was doing and told me I was parked in a bus stop and should move. I didn't feel like arguing (it's not a bus stop) so I went home.
So you'll have to imagine a few cars stopped there! Is it safe to go even though the lights are red?
I'll have to give it another go when it's warmer and I feel like walking.

If you think green means it's safe to go don't ever turn right at a standard traffic light junction...

Edit: moved photo numbers around. Photo 2 is the best (and biggest because I forgot to shrinkify it)

_________________
Andrew.

I don't think it's true that traffic lights are there to cause congestion and I think they make things safer for cyclists like me.

Around here if you approach lights when no traffic has been for some time they'll go green on passing over the loops. They have special loops for bikes too though you have to come to a near halt in the ASL.

Ok, the lights in photo 1/2 are vehicle activated. I saw a car stop there and after about 20-30 seconds of waiting the lights changed to green. No, there weren't any other cars around.
The other lights aren't. Or if they are it doesn't work.

_________________
Andrew.

Lights are not put up just to cause congestion, although they are often put up for reasons that are not immediately obvious to the motorist, as per the Ketley Brook ones in Telford. One of the main reasons cited was that there is a main pedestrian thoroughfare between the retail park and the nearby housing.
And as for not treating them with respect, whose moral barometer are we using to determine whether we should or should not do so. The most disrespectful and least tolerant members of society or the most tolerant?

Yes, traffic lights should be used with more discretion and could be set to amber or even turned off when traffic flow is minimal. But ignoring them just because one thinks it seems to be OK to do so at the time is not the solution.

I'm not saying that I ignore them - I said I could understand why people do.

What I am saying, is that where traffic was free-flowing and there were no problems to any sector of road users, and now there are traffic lights there, only to cause congestion, why should they be observed?

As a society, I think we are becoming less tolerant as a whole, and part of that manifests itself in disregarding traffic signs when they are there only to cause congestion.

_________________
Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

I think the 'moral barometer' being used here, is that of sensibility...

The days are long gone of meek obeyance 'cos it's the law'. People question things more now. If people realise that things are done for no proper reason, e.g. safety, then they will (rightly, IMHO) ignore them.

_________________
Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Safer ?
For cyclists ?
When was the last time anyone noticed a cyclist stop at red lights ?
Lets see....no reflective clothing, no lights, no reflector and no interest in obeying traffic laws or common sense.
Mydefinition of cyclists.
Have I forgotten anything ?

I go very slow if I see a red one and by the time I get there it'll hopefully be changed.

Hate it when they go red in front of me though and I have to brake or go through on red since traffic lights tend to account for my sharpest braking other than in "emergencies".

Ahhh, so people are more arrogant then?



If they think things are done for no proper reason they will ignore them, quite wrongly IMHO.

This is one of those 'respect must be earned' things.

We used to have a very 'British' way of doing things that was highly worthy of respect. As that slips away into the history books, we simply have nothing to replace it with. If the government thinks they can replace it with PCNs and FPNs then they are as wrong as a wrong thing could ever be.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

If the need for them isn't obvious then might they not be superfluous?

South Manchester is wash with sets of lights to let people out of the car parks, examples near here include a cinema and bowling alley, Pets at Home and Office World, Sainsburys etc etc. All are A roads and you could be stopping dozens of cars to let one out. All doubtless paid for the lights installation to smooth the planning application. And I hate each and everyone!

Why on earth should busy major routes be brought to a halt to let people out of a carpark? If exiting that car park is a sod without the lights then go somewhere that isn't a sod. In two of the above cases the new lights are within a couple of hundred yards of major junctions and they do cause congestion as traffic quickly backs up into the major junctions snarling them up.

Barkstar

_________________
The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.

The gap has, IMHO widened in both directions Paul.