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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 23:15 
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T2006 wrote:
JT wrote:
Elton John, Graham Norton are typical examples of those who are glamourised simply for the very fact that they are overtly homosexual.


I couldn't disagree more; Norton and Elton are both highly established and popular personalites in their field because they have an outstanding ability to entertain certain audiances, not because they are homosexual! Thier sexuality may form a part of their personality; but who's doesn't, gay or staight?

My point is that once over Elton John (say) would have appeared on our televisions as a singer (and an extremely talented one at that). But these days when he appears we're equally likely to hear him being feted for being gay.

Going back to the point I made about this in my earlier post, I'd be perfectly happy to see him on Parky acknowledging the fact or debating it, but where I draw my own personal line in the sand is when he seems to be celebrating the fact.

Same with Norton. He doesn't merely acknowledge his sexuality, he glamourises it. The message is "Look at me - I'm cool, I'm hip, I'm gay".

This is just a personal opinion, but I just can't get comfortable with that. If that makes me "homophobic" in your eyes then so be it. It doesn't in mine - I have nothing against such people - either as individuals or as a group - I just don't see it as something to be admired that's all.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 23:25 
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As for you, JT, you are clearly a homophobic racist. And I bet you've broken the speed limit several times. You are not welcome in this country. You do not fit.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 23:36 
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I'm homophobic!
And lesbophobic!
T'aint natural! :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 23:39 
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Oscar wrote:
T'aint natural! :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:


Presumably you eat your food raw and live in a tree (apologies to Terry Pratchett). :)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 23:46 
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JT wrote:
Same with Norton. He doesn't merely acknowledge his sexuality, he glamourises it. The message is "Look at me - I'm cool, I'm hip, I'm gay".


I would say its more" Look at me - I'm cool, I'm hip, I'm gay and proud, not ashamed and won't cower into the shadows".

A gay person being overt and confident is noting to do with glamorisation of sexuality, perhaps more just sure in his abilities and confident a performer. Would a heterosexual person in the same circumstances be equally wrong for glamourising herterosexuality? Should homosexuals in the public eye conduct themselves in an ashamed manor such as not to offend?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 00:18 
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T2006 wrote:
JT wrote:
Same with Norton. He doesn't merely acknowledge his sexuality, he glamourises it. The message is "Look at me - I'm cool, I'm hip, I'm gay".


I would say its more" Look at me - I'm cool, I'm hip, I'm gay and proud, not ashamed and won't cower into the shadows".

A gay person being overt and confident is noting to do with glamorisation of sexuality, perhaps more just sure in his abilities and confident a performer. Would a heterosexual person in the same circumstances be equally wrong for glamourising herterosexuality? Should homosexuals in the public eye conduct themselves in an ashamed manor such as not to offend?

To be honest I'd rather they didn't make anything of it at all, in the same way that I don't go around shouting "Look at me - I'm straight!".

I think more than anything it is the political correctness angle I despise. The message is that we are no longer permitted to hold an opinion about it - instead we are all expected to be falling over each other to say how much we admire and embrace homosexuality etc etc.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 00:24 
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On a more serious note, I saw Eddie Izzard live last year doing a one-man show. For those of you who know him only by reputation and not from experience, he is one of the funniest comics of our age. Highly intelligent and a great mimic with wonderful observational powers, he really is one of the greats. What's more, most of his material is clean - unusually so for an "alternative" comedian.

But he did the whole show in a leather skirt, as if to "make a statement". It was entirely unnecessary and, while I wouldn't say it spoilt the show, it distracted us.

Why do they feel they have to shove it up our noses?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 01:30 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
prof beard wrote:
Ernest Marsh wrote:
Same goes for the idiots in Leicester who decided to remove all the Gideons bibles from hospital bedside cabinets "because they might harbour MRSA bugs!"


In principle, something which remains by a hospital from occupant to occupant without being cleaned or sterilised could indeed be a bug hazard. However, in the case on bibles I'd be amazed if more than one occupant in 20 ever looked at them, so perhaps it is daft?

It was a thinly veiled attempt to avoid "upsetting" Muslims - and was immediately recognised as such!
MRSA is MOST prevelant in wards for children and old people - who unfortunately have the poorer record for personal hygeine. Unfortunately, it's not "PC" to make this well known, as it might be construed as "blaming them" for their own misfortune. :oops:


I was about to go to bed when I began to read through this thread. I have now decided to have a third cup of Ovaltine. :lol:

I upset a load of people recently on our wards by taking away the mobile phones - as these harbour more germs than a seat in a public lavatory. :wink: Besides - they are not allowed to have them switched on anyway and we make more cash by making them use our system :lol: oops!

As for the Bibles.. I have since instructed all hospitals under my patch to give them all a wipe with antiseptic cloth.

But yep - we go way too far in the pee cee quest not to offend because the condescending and patronising manner causes more offence to all.

We have removal of normal marriage photos, restriction on choice of hymns at a wedding service in case it offends..we even have the thought place dictating use of pop songs .. I recall some story in the tabloid press over Robbie Williams song "Angels" being deemed "offensive" because of one verse. :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 01:53 
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Cooperman wrote:
handy wrote:
Cooperman wrote:
It's strange, really. I was brought up in the 40's and 50's to have respect for the law in all its forms and, to be truthful, I did. I even had respect for motoring laws and when I was first caught speeding I just accepted that I had transgressed, paid up and didn't complain.
Now, however, it's a different matter and i think i've turned into an OAP anarchist. I now tend to ignore the laws I consider stupid and ill-conceived.


so if YOU think the laws on sexism, racism, homophobia are ill conceived then it's OK for YOU to be sexist, racist, homophobic?

You know what, it's really not OK.


You know what, I am sexist in that I would not employ a female of child-bearing age in a position where the continued success of my business depended upon it.
I am racist in that I believe that those coming to live in this country should integrate into our ways and traditions and not demand special privileges. If they can't or won't, then they can clear off.
I am a white hetrosexual male and I am uncomfortable around poofs. I have nothing against them as a group, I just don't want to be around them and that's my choice, although I'm sure that most are very nice people.

I hope I make myself clear.


I think we should employ folks on merit of what they can do and how they benefit a business. We have one now on ageism and it's very woolly in wording :roll:


Wildy as you know - we have a good marriage :lol: But - she's been a darned good employee for her firm over the years...

Foreigners...they should embrace and respect our culture instead of wanting us to adopt theirs. Respect begets respect after all - and whilst I respect the foreigners' right to worship according to their culture and beliefs - I do expect to be able to express my right to worship and celebrate British culture without some pee-cee nonsense being foisted on this pleasures.

I want to say Happy Christmas" Take my kids to see Father Christmas and look at the Christmas lights as part of their childhood "magic"

I want to talk of Easter bunnies and tell my kids the story of Jesus.

I do not want to hide my Christianity lest I offend someone of another faith and I have many colleagues who are Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Jew.. Buddhist, atheist, agnostic, C of E, Catholic, Anglican.. whatever... and I reckon we enjoy each other's company as pals and colleagues.

Homos? Let's just say that the old saying of "birds of a feather flock together" and if you are the "outsider" in any group gathering - you are going to feel "uncomfortable" and it's nothing to do with any other "ism" or "ist" other than "humanism" :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 02:09 
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handy wrote:
I don't claim to be an any better driver than anyone else, nor do I claim never to go over the speed limit.

I have a speed camera warning device in my car, and keep the locations updated, I can't think of the last time I was beeped for being over the limit near a speed camera.


Eh? They beep per database even when startionary and if engine and gadget "on" - they beep. Have you got yours on "mute" :wink:

I set mine to overspeed bleep .. it does bleep though when I move from 30 mph to 40 mph and I have to remember to reset for a motorway drive. :wink:

Quote:
I tend to drive slightly under the limit - bearing in mind that probably 90% of my miles are on motorway or NSL DC. I do not see the limit as a target, so if, as and when I check my speedo if I am as much as indicated 10% below the posted limit I do not worry about it. I certainly wouldn't speed up because of the number on the speedo!



Ah - so you are not on the roads where these forests are .. and since when can you get to drive at 70 mph in peak time on any motorway :wink:

Only Gatsos you may find on m/way are the tempos and you usually crawl through road works in daytime anyway. Most of those I hear of and read of on these fora - pinged at night when deserted and they thought the "limit did not apply then" :banghead:

But we do know of one person who drove along a Blackpoo! road at 34 -35 mph - and ended up with 6 points. Would have been 9 points but he saved one endorsement through the Speed Course :roll: Was in 2003 Blackpoo! press.

Quote:
At an indicated 70mph in my car the actual speed is 64mph. If I drove at an actual (sat nav) speed of 75mph (so within the 10% + 2 level) I would have around 15% less time to react to any given hazard preseting itself to me. For the amount of time a free travelling speed of exceeding 70mph is available on the roads I drive on, the extra few seconds in a journey are worth it for that alone. I am giving myself a gift in reducing the 99.999% accuracy target!

I wouldn't even claim that I will never get a speeding fine, as posted above the number of cameras and the miles that I travel each year mean that I couldn't in all honesty make that claim, but I think I have put enough thought into my driving, and given myself a safety margin, to reduce that likelihood.


You only need to miss a tempo lolly and you could still fall fouls of SPECs.

I use the useful gadget properly ..and drive per COAST anyway :wink: But view all vans on bridges with suspicion.. but tune into local radion and prat sites for data on van timetables :wink:

Quote:
The main issue for me, though, as alluded to earlier, is that limits should be appropriate and signed properly. If all of the newspaper whining and campaigning that went into whinging about speed cameras was diverted into getting speed limits correct and giving the motorist the right to input into the speed limit setting process, we may now have 80 or even 90 limits on our safest roads (motorways) and have a right to appeal against the "formerly safe at 60, now only 30" roads?

Of course that only works if the speed cameras are 100% accurate and trustworthy ... I'm still not convinced that is true (although I do not subscribe to a view that says most are inaccurate ).



Most are not placed where they should be. :roll: I would bet that Cooperman's candidate fell foul of SPECS and mobiles though :roll:

Blimey - that the time? I must admit this thread took a lot of read throughs and lots of Ovaltine!

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Smily to penny.. penny to pound
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 07:06 
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FJSRiDER wrote:
Dixie wrote:
You're only saying what allot of people in this country are thinking, who are to scared of saying it for the same reason.

You can't know that.

He could be in a small minority of stupid bigots who are hard of thinking. :roll:

However, on this occasion, he could be right!
It could be people like you who have been brainwashed by the pee cee brigade and have now stopped thinking for yourself that are now hard of thinking...

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 07:10 
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pembrokestephen wrote:
No, if you're flamed, it'll probably be for being a narrow-minded reactionary racist bastard.

So you're calling me a "narrow-minded reactionary racist bastard" because I object to my national identity being eroded, my country becoming over-populated etc etc etc?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 07:12 
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PaulAH wrote:
Couldn't agree more. You sound off because a mere six million people arrive here, fragmenting society, straining our infrastructure to breaking point, altering our national character, a significant number demanding benefits to which they've not contributed a penny.


The irrational responses to migration and the preceived problems are EXACTLY like the irrational responses to the climate change issue. People who bang the drum think (arrogantly and ignorantly IMO) only in the context of their own lifetime.

Immigration (like climate change) has been going on for centuries - Irish, Indian, Dutch, even going all the way back to the Vikings - we are a bastard nation.

I am the son of an Italian father who came to the UK in the late '60s. My mother is second generation Italian and her family came to the UK before WWII. On both occasions they and their siblings came here for economic reasons and I find it grossly offensive when people 'knee-jerk' about immigration.

Especially so as my father is now retired from a very successful business which he built from the ground up, employed many people and contributed 7-figure sums of money to the treasury, yet because he is an Italian citizen he is STILL not allowed to vote.


Last edited by r11co on Mon Oct 02, 2006 07:24, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 07:15 
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PaulAH wrote:
On a more serious note, I saw Eddie Izzard live last year doing a one-man show. For those of you who know him only by reputation and not from experience, he is one of the funniest comics of our age. Highly intelligent and a great mimic with wonderful observational powers, he really is one of the greats. What's more, most of his material is clean - unusually so for an "alternative" comedian.

But he did the whole show in a leather skirt, as if to "make a statement". It was entirely unnecessary and, while I wouldn't say it spoilt the show, it distracted us.

Why do they feel they have to shove it up our noses?


Joke's on you Paul. Eddie Izzard is heterosexual. He makes great play of the people who presume he isn't though and let their prejudices come to light when they see his stage costumes.

He also reckons he has nice legs.....


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 08:27 
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r11co wrote:
Joke's on you Paul. Eddie Izzard is heterosexual.

Did I say he was gay? No, I didn't. Izzard describes himself as an 'executive' or 'action' transvestite.

My point is his skirt added nothing to the performance and many people - certainly the group I was with - found it a distraction. No-one as funny and clever as him needs to make a personal statement so forcefully. Worse, it looked like something he'd picked up at a jumble sale. Trinny and Suzannah would have had a fit.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 08:51 
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r11co wrote:
Immigration (like climate change) has been going on for centuries - Irish, Indian, Dutch, even going all the way back to the Vikings - we are a bastard nation.

If I hear that lame argument once more, this computer gets a hammer through it.

Of course we have been taking in foreigners for centuries. But never in the history of the British Isles has there been such a massive influx of people of different nationalities, tongues and appearance - millions upon millions of them, to the extent that in some London boroughs indigenous British people have become a minority. Ironically, even some second/third generation British BLACKS say they feel overwhelmed by all the new arrivals.

Your Italian father settling here, along with perhaps a few thousand other Italians, would not have been seen as "taking the place over". What's more, they doubtless made an effort to integrate. I know a Welshman called Masserelli, the son of a post-war Italian immigrant. You wouldn't have him as anything but Welsh; a fluent Welsh speaker, the only hint of his lineage is a mop of curly black hair.

One good thing to come from the latest flush of Eastern Europeans it that it shows the argument was never really a black-and-white one about race. It is ALL about numbers. Why people like r11co cannot see that oh-so-glaringly obvious fact defeats me.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 08:52 
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PaulAH wrote:

But he did the whole show in a leather skirt, as if to "make a statement". It was entirely unnecessary and, while I wouldn't say it spoilt the show, it distracted us.

Why do they feel they have to shove it up our noses?


For goodness sake man! What century do you live in? PaulAH, born 1723. :roll:

Did it occur that as a transvestite, he may be comforable wearing a skirt? :) Would you consider a woman wearing overtly heterosexual dress as "shoving it up [your] noses"?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 08:58 
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JT wrote:
T2006 wrote:
JT wrote:
Elton John, Graham Norton are typical examples of those who are glamourised simply for the very fact that they are overtly homosexual.


I couldn't disagree more; Norton and Elton are both highly established and popular personalites in their field because they have an outstanding ability to entertain certain audiances, not because they are homosexual! Thier sexuality may form a part of their personality; but who's doesn't, gay or staight?

My point is that once over Elton John (say) would have appeared on our televisions as a singer (and an extremely talented one at that). But these days when he appears we're equally likely to hear him being feted for being gay.

Going back to the point I made about this in my earlier post, I'd be perfectly happy to see him on Parky acknowledging the fact or debating it, but where I draw my own personal line in the sand is when he seems to be celebrating the fact.

Same with Norton. He doesn't merely acknowledge his sexuality, he glamourises it. The message is "Look at me - I'm cool, I'm hip, I'm gay".

This is just a personal opinion, but I just can't get comfortable with that. If that makes me "homophobic" in your eyes then so be it. It doesn't in mine - I have nothing against such people - either as individuals or as a group - I just don't see it as something to be admired that's all.

After the way our society has treated homosexuals for so long, I think that they're probably entitled to celebrate the fact that they can express their sexuality - which is part of their nature - without having to hide it for fear of prosecution, if not assault: sadly, there are still narrow-minded and reactionary types around who'd at the very least condone their being victimised for being gay, but things have come on a long way, and I welcome that.

Regardless of why people are homosexual, that is the way they are, and we have no business sitting in judgement on them. It may not be a lifestyle that, as heterosexuals, we find attractive, but that doesn't make it "wrong".

I do find this "it ain't natural, so it shouldn't be allowed" attitude very, very tiresome...

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 09:04 
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'Presumably you eat your food raw and live in a tree (apologies to Terry Pratchett).'

Still ain't natural, or we'd all be bent!
And no kids......


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 09:08 
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BottyBurp wrote:
pembrokestephen wrote:
No, if you're flamed, it'll probably be for being a narrow-minded reactionary racist bastard.

So you're calling me a "narrow-minded reactionary racist bastard" because I object to my national identity being eroded, my country becoming over-populated etc etc etc?

I worded that post quite carefully.

I said that if you got flamed, it would be for those reasons.

Honestly, anyone would think you were trying to find things to be offended about!

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