ANPR refuseniks

SafeSpeed · **Posted:** Fri Jan 20, 2006 16:29

I'm feeling extremely uncomfortable with the idea of being tracked by ANPR while going about my honest and legitimate life. I don't have anything to hide, but that does not reduce the sense of violation and vulnerability.

Accordingly I want to say: NO!

Ideally I'd join someone else's campaign. If anyone knows of any action being taken about ANPR abuse, please let me know.

Or perhaps there's someone here who wants to create and manage a campaign?

Steve · **Posted:** Fri Jan 20, 2006 16:32

Can I assume that SPECS would fall under the same umbrella?

SafeSpeed · **Posted:** Fri Jan 20, 2006 17:04

smeggy wrote:

Can I assume that SPECS would fall under the same umbrella?

Not from a point of view of resource targeting, no.

The Safe Speed campaign will obviously continue to take on speed cameras in all their guises. If I wasn't doing that, I might take on blanket ANPR - but as things stand I have my hands full with speed cameras.

malcolmw · **Posted:** Fri Jan 20, 2006 17:35

[devils advocate mode on]

So this site is an anti-camera one and not the pro-road safety site we all thought then.

[devils advocate mode off]

Actually, I agree with you about all this monitoring - including ANPR. As the underlying database is so flawed then the problems of mis-identification etc. will be immense. Then there is the human rights angle.

SafeSpeed · **Posted:** Fri Jan 20, 2006 17:59

malcolmw wrote:

[devils advocate mode on]
So this site is an anti-camera one and not the pro-road safety site we all thought then.
[devils advocate mode off]

Honestly I believe that speed cameras are our biggest road safety issue of all. I believe they are costing 1,200 lives each year, and I believe that they are damaging the culture in a way that will be difficult to repair.

I'm deeply concerned that there are professionals in road safety with over a decade of on-the-job experience who have never known anything other than speed cameras and their bedfellow speed reduction.

We can't refocus national road safety efforts properly while cameras are distorting the data, the motivations, the claims and the analysis.

Ernest Marsh · **Posted:** Sun Jan 22, 2006 18:24

Men and Motors featured North Staffs ANPR in their "Crimefighters" series last night.
It showed mass targetting by overhead CCTV of vehicles entering and leaving the district - as well as while within the perimeter.

Of course the film only showed the unqulaified successes, but it did show the number of vehicles which became targets simply because they were flagged. It quoted figures which were far in excess of the solved crime figures.

One car which showed as no insurance, came up with a stop, and the driver had a provisional license, unaccompanied, and eventually, turned out to be an illegal immigrant.
With that sort of publicity, it will be an uphill struggle to convince many they are not a good idea.

Get the FOI's in for information while they are still confident, and you might get real answers. Wait 12-18 months, and it might not be so.
This program was back to back with "Motorway Patrol" which features New Zealand motorway police. What a contrast!

anton · **Joined:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02 **Posts:** 3266

I would agree with Paul. Keeping a database of outr travel around the country is an invasion of our privicy. It could be mis-used to track you for political or industrial reasons. It could lead to circumstantial evidence being mis-used in court or investigations.

IE "crime was commited by some one in a red astra van" "the only red astra van that traveled down tha A123 that night was his" You are top suspect yet you have commited no crime.

If you visit your wife in hospital every day near the red light district you could end up on the kerb crawling list.

I do not believe we/politicians have authorised the leaps of inteligence that are being stored. The police are striding ahead of thier authority.

johno1066 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 22, 2006 23:31

edited

malcolmw · **Posted:** Sun Jan 22, 2006 23:44

Anton,

Royal South Hants?

I remember taking my mother-in-law down there late in the afternoon. "What are all these women doing?" she said.

anton · **Joined:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02 **Posts:** 3266

Exactly, royal south hants.
(for others, you probobly see 5 ladies of the night when you travel from the exit of the hospital to the main road... even in the day time)

Andy L · **Joined:** Sun Mar 14, 2004 14:32 **Posts:** 30

johno1066 wrote:

I think it'll be a good idea to have a campaign in itself that highlights the misuse of ANPR and the cctv system in general.

It's much wider than this - a point currently being discussed on one of the No2ID topics and the formation of a campaign to highlight all surveillance issues - many campaigns including Safespeed, No2ID, ABD, PePiPoo, Liberty, Statewatch, ICAMS and so on are concerned to some degree with the levels of surveillance being introduced.

Note that DNA is not infalible yet like speed cameras is perceived by the authorities as beyond question.

I have stated at No2ID that the way motorists are treated today is a model for highlighting things to come, all the dangers associated with the possible abuse for ID cards are being realised in the area of traffic enforcement.

groomi · **Joined:** Mon Jan 23, 2006 19:14 **Posts:** 2

SafeSpeed wrote:

I'm feeling extremely uncomfortable with the idea of being tracked by ANPR while going about my honest and legitimate life. I don't have anything to hide, but that does not reduce the sense of violation and vulnerability.

Accordingly I want to say: NO!

Ideally I'd join someone else's campaign. If anyone knows of any action being taken about ANPR abuse, please let me know.

Or perhaps there's someone here who wants to create and manage a campaign?

Hi all, first post on this forum, but I'm a regular over on Pistonheads.

Anyway, at the risk of not knowing what I'm getting myself into, may I make a proposal?

I suggest that a day of peaceful protest is organised aimed specifically at the privacy intrusion and 'police-state surveillance' operations now prevalent in our society. The action would be to spend one day actively trying to avoid displaying our identity (to cameras and automated systems only). This could be in the form of removing number plates from our cars, not using ATM machines, pay cash for everything etc. etc.

And the proposed date? How about July 4th - Independence Day???

What do you all think?

malcolmw · **Posted:** Mon Jan 23, 2006 20:00

Peaceful protest OK.

We cannot be seen to be advocating any lawbreaking on a road safety site can we, so the numberplates stunt is out.

(I refer you to the ill advised previous postings about avoiding legal sanctions.)

johno1066 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 23, 2006 21:01

edited

groomi · **Joined:** Mon Jan 23, 2006 19:14 **Posts:** 2

Fair enough.

On the number plate note, I understand that it is a simple £30 fine - no points and not prosecuteable. Maybe worth a little more investigation before being dropped?

Definately should involve as many organisations as possible for publicity and effect. Any others you can think of?

botach · **Posted:** Mon Jan 23, 2006 21:26

Find some way of getting a group together on a day when a ANPR team are in an area - they want to check some plates - lets give them some to check - a convoy past the van as long as it sits there = a nice peacefull protest.
The ones they're after will know after about 5 minutes anyway and will use another route- most probably won't go that way because it's a favourite with the ANPR team.

SafeSpeed · **Posted:** Mon Jan 23, 2006 21:28

For discussion: what if the numberplates were upside-down?

I'd bet a pound to a penny that ANPR couldn't cope.

botach · **Posted:** Mon Jan 23, 2006 21:30

SafeSpeed wrote:

For discussion: what if the numberplates were upside-down?

I'd bet a pound to a penny that ANPR couldn't cope.

A convoy past a ANPR van with plates upside down - :clap:

camera operator · **Joined:** Tue Apr 26, 2005 19:48 **Posts:** 1995

just remember though a response car would be around the next corner, fpt's at the ready

ree.t · **Posted:** Mon Jan 23, 2006 21:36

SafeSpeed wrote:

For discussion: what if the numberplates were upside-down?

I'd bet a pound to a penny that ANPR couldn't cope.

I do like this one.

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