Safe Speed Forums

In my time driving I've only ever encountered two types of biker; the "hells grandad" (they've fitted a loud pipe to make themselves feel "mean" on their hog and persist in driving at 40mph everywhere, sitting in the middle of the lane that they're in not allowing anyone to pass); and the "i want to die (sports/super)-bike rider" (this breed charge around everywhere - fair enough if you can get away with it).

However, the one thing that both of these bikers have in common is that they will (no matter what the conditions) sit right on your off-side rear quarter should you be unfortunate enough to drive a car. I'm always looking out for bikers so I can move over and let them pass safely (although none of them actually wave anymore to thank you for your efforts ).

However, I'm increasingly finding that due to single lane, coned-off sections of road which cause immense build ups of traffic, i'm unable to give them enough room to pass me which prompts them to sit right in my blind spot revving the b0ll0x off of their bike to let me know they're there. "I'm very well aware of your presence, but I can't go anywhere Mr Plebeian"..... I really don't understand why bikers can't be taught during their test to wait behind cars and just sit up - this would afford them a fantastic view of the road ahead over the roof of my car and also mean that they'd have enough room to manoeuvre should I need to stop suddenly or - heaven forefend - need to move away from the nearside of the road to avoid an obstacle (at present this would result in me "taking out" the morons that perpetuate this practice).

Perhaps this belongs in the soapbox section but as that was only for rants at authority I posted here.

Feel free to make my day by telling me that someone somewhere is planning to educate bikers to avoid doing this.

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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

As for the quarter sitting, I think it may be something to do with defensive riding - body language to say "I intend to overtake when it's clear".

There's a lot of bikers around who'll do this, and if you squeeze over a tad they'll slip up the middle and give a little wave or nod as they pass.

I don't really grudge bikers making quicker progress - I'm warm and dry, so it seems fair to let them get where they're going a bit quicker.

There are still lots of good bikers around, but I think it's a conspicuous minority that really stand out and get people's backs up. You hardly notice the people that don't annoy you in life - it seems to be the few that get the many a bad name.

(P.S. I'm not a biker)

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I REALLY don't understand this. A biker who hides in a car's blind spot doesn't last long. I would have thought that darwin would have sorted it out!

Neither is it my experience. In fact I frequently notice bikers deliberately staying out of my blind spots.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I tend to find the bikers ride in a position where they appear in my rear view mirror and my offside wing mirror.

As I said before I read it as an indication of their intention to pass me when they get a chance.

In the mean time, they're keeping in a position where I don't have to search for them, as I know where they'll be relative to me.

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Thanks for the welcome

To be honest I only notice this when I am going through roadworks where it is imposible for bikers to pass me in saftey (perhaps I should have made that clearer) but I and I'm sure everyone else that drives on a daily basis can appreciate that there are A LOT of roadworks on the roads today.

I think it's where the bike rider believes that i'm intentionally holding him/her up and keep "inching" closer to me to try and intimitate me/force me over.

I don't begrudge bikers racing around everywhere - if my car was that small I'd be doing it too - but I do find that they're constantly in one "mode" as it were, whereby, as they've been making such excellent progress they cannot accept that they can possibly be held up by other traffic.... Anyway i'll get off this now ---->

*Edit* Great site BTW Paul, can't tell you how impressed I was looking through all the info you've got on here!

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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

Has it occurred to you that maybe we sit in this approximate position in preparation for the stupid maneuver we expect of the average cager?


Well I can't speak for others, but if I see a cager make the effort to move over to let me pass then I will always acknowledge this, even if it is only to lift 2 fingers off of the left hand grip.
You have no need to exaggerate your intention of letting me pass either, I will notice it no matter how small the gesture


Again I can't speak for others, but when I find myself behind a car in the conditions you describe, I am already aware that I cannot progress any further until the roadworks have cleared and do not feel the need to "rev the bollocks off my bike" in some futile attempt to get you to make space for me to overtake.
However if you are one of the numpties that feels the need to slow down to 10mph in the conditions you describe when 40 would be perfectly acceptable, then you can rest assured that I will make you fully aware that you are driving like a twat.


If I wanted to wait behind cars, I'd drive a car.


My chosen riding position has already made provision for the above scenario, rest assured that no matter how sudden a move you make I am already waiting for it to happen.


How exactly will your maneuver "take me out" when I am behind you??


As Paul has already stated, Darwin has already sorted out the very small minority whose riding skills are not up to scratch and will continue to do so until time ceases to exist.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Oh I can't be bothered...

Welcome to the forum though. Its nice to see someone has actually bothered to read the site before posting, unlike some...

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Doesn't the fact that I KNOW that the biker is in my blind spot tell you a lot about my level of observation, if you want to liken me to a "cager" then perhaps you would be good enough to tell me how your "i'm right cos i'm on my bike" attitude is any different? Regardless of what you might think both are utterly selfish attitudes to take.

But enough of that:

1. Gixxer my post isn't a personal attack on you as a biker.

2. By Offside rear quarter, I mean actually the front of your bike level with my rear tyre... If I have to move over I will hit the front of the biker who's decided to place themselves in such a ridiculous position. Granted there are bikers - clearly you are one - who do sit back in this position but in the situation above I am talking about people who are clearly annoyed at being held up and who have continued to try and squeeze past me without success.

3. "If I wanted to wait behind cars, I'd drive a car. " You have to accept there are times when your own driving is dictated by other road users... single lanes of roadworks where there is no safe place to pass being one.

4. I do drive at the posted limit or as fast as other road users will allow me to in the situation in my post above... I do not go "ooh scary roadworks, I'm such a numpty for owning a car, I better drive at 2mph".

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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

Whilst in my car I find the antics of bikers, generally, not troublesome at all. But then again, I understand their needs and problems as I ride one myself.
Yet, when on my bike, I find the antics of many 'cagers' is enough to make a saint swear. I don't understand why they are so stupid even though I drive one myself.

I have a great deal of respect for bikers, I wish I was one. I nearly always get an acknowledgement as they pass. If they don't want to or can't pass then sitting in my offside wing mirrors would still make sense to me as it gives them an escape route. If they also happen to have loud pipes then I also find that helpful.

There will always be a minority of idiots but I believe there are fewer in the biking world because they are doing it for pleasure. A large proportion of car drivers are just going from A to B and don't care how they get there.

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Shooting is good for you and too good for some people.

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

No offence Mullet, but are you SURE that they are riding with their front wheel alongside your car? Its very easy to misjudge how far something as narrow as a bike is behind you especially if you have a wide-angle mirror.

I have to agree with Rigpig about the antics of 'cagers'. It really is shocking just how badly some people drive. I've had people change lanes while I'm next to them and even after repeated blasts on the horn and the odd boot/wing interface they've kept coming. I've had people purposely close gaps that I could have easily got through just because theu don't want to be overtaken. I've seen some truely shocking and frightening driving.

You see, the thing with riding a bike is that there's only one person you're going to hurt if you cock up.

And BTW I always give a thankyou wave is someone is awake enough to move over to allow me past them.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Does it matter if I think they're that close or instead sitting on my rear bumper... Either way they're too close to be safe enough to have time to react should I need to brake.

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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

And there's every chance that from that position they can see PAST you and more than likely will be on the brakes before you've even shifted your foot off the go peddle. You have to bear in mind that when you're in the shit, even the smallest gap can provide an escape route.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Yes and can you honestly say that your driving standards are constantly at that level, you never once slip up, make a mistake, have a split second lapse of concentration due to something disctracting you... I'm not perfect but I can but try. The type of biker I'm posting about has "thrown out" what they've been taught in favour of getting from A-B as quickly as possible.... Can someone explain why bikers are perceived as "driving" Gods cos they get from A-B quicker than "cagers", I'm sure that while there is a slightly higher level of concentration required to ride a bike there is still fabulous scope for the same bad habbits - tailgating, excessive speed, dangerous driving and poor road positioning.

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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

If they're looking past me though from my offside they'll have to take their eyes off my car, where-as if they remained behind they'd see what I was doing while taking in the road ahead... Remember that my view as a car driver/"cager" will be "obstructed" by traffic in front where-as theirs will be clear being to one side (however being on the off side means their view of my near side is non-existent).. This may well cause us to interpret the road ahead completely differently.....

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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

The biggest difference being that if you cock up on a bike, IT HURTS. You can be killed coming off a bike at 30mph.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Yes.... I was forgetting how much "fun" it was to crash my car........

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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

Because, I don't want a bike in the back/side/otherwise of my car - this is why I'm worried........

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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.