Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Tue Oct 28, 2025 19:44

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 13:31 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 09:16
Posts: 3655
Quote:
Dept of Transport: VED evasion cost rises by £18m to £147m
The Department for Transport has published National Statistics on the evasion of Vehicle Excise Duty in Great Britain in 2005; it is now estimated to be costing £147 million in the current year 2005/6, some £18 million more than in 2004/5 but well below the figure of over £206 million in 2002/3.

The revenue lost from VED evasion is equivalent to 3.6 per cent of the total revenue that should be raised, compared with 3.4 per cent in 2004/5 and 4.8 per cent in 2002/3. In the Private and Light Goods tax class which accounts for 87 per cent of vehicle stock, evasion rose from 2.9 per cent of vehicles in use in 2004 to 3.1 per cent in 2005. The equivalent figure for 2002 was 4.4 per cent.

Regionally, the largest increase in evasion rate between 2004 and 2005 was in Wales. The survey also showed that vehicles that are not correctly licensed have on average lower mileage than properly licensed vehicles in all tax classes. Evasion rates are highest among motorcycles and ‘other vehicles’, as was the case in 2004.

Evasion rates are higher for older vehicles. Evasion among vehicles in the PLG class that are more than 10 years old is five times the evasion level of vehicles less than 10 years old. Evasion is around 10 times higher for vehicles whose owner details are not known.

The latest DfT report describes how the survey was carried out and presents detailed results, including further comparisons against those from the previous two surveys.


Knock me down with a feather. So there are still cars whos owner details are not known. I wonder if the level of speed camer fine evasion has increased.. :roll:

_________________
Speed camera policy Kills


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 13:47 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:30
Posts: 2053
Location: South Wales (Roving all UK)
Now I'm a simple soul but if VED was abolished and fuel duty increased........wouldn't it be the perfect evasion proof tax?

no money spent to administer...nothing to enforce.....no need to pay for adverts.........bloody hell it may even be revenue neutral!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 14:14 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 14:00
Posts: 1271
Location: Near Telford, UK / Barcelona, Spain
civil engineer wrote:
no money spent to administer...nothing to enforce.....no need to pay for adverts.........bloody hell it may even be revenue neutral!

With this government?? You been drinkin' boy?? :roll:

_________________
"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 14:21 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:30
Posts: 2053
Location: South Wales (Roving all UK)
But its the obvious answer


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 14:30 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 14:55
Posts: 134
Location: Hérault, France
civil engineer wrote:
But its the obvious answer

Can you spot the point at which your plan will fail to pass the entrenched beaurocracy test?

No money spent to administer - Great
Nothing to enforce - Super
Thousands of civil servants can be made redundant - Bzzzt!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 14:58 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
civil engineer wrote:
Now I'm a simple soul but if VED was abolished and fuel duty increased........wouldn't it be the perfect evasion proof tax?

You would still need vehicle licensing and registration, though, which would inevitably require a £10 "administration" fee or some such. Over a few years this would tend to creep up until after a while it reached, say, around £150 a year.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 17:05 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 13:36
Posts: 1339
Also if the tax goes onto fuel, I would be very concerned as to who is going to make sure they don't add on too much.

I would bet that most people over-estimate the current ratio of fuel tax to road tax (I have made a quick calculation which shows about 8:1 for 10,000 miles a year at 25 mpg). Because the fuel tax is paid in much smaller installments, it seems like less, so a large overall yearly rise could be easily masked.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 17:18 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 14:00
Posts: 1271
Location: Near Telford, UK / Barcelona, Spain
Zamzara wrote:
Also if the tax goes onto fuel, I would be very concerned as to who is going to make sure they don't add on too much.

I remember this idea being mooted by "the powers that be" some years ago. They were pitching the additional fuel duty in order to recover the same amount as VED by basing it on an average 6,000 miles per vehicle per year! At the time "Glass's Guide" worked on an average of 12,000 per annum - so HMG was planning on giving all motorists a shafting, and high mileage motorists a "right royal" shafting.

Plus ca change! :roll:

_________________
"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 20:48 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9268
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Right - tried out some figures - on "plucked out of air " figure of 15k per year and 30mpg ( low ,but wat the heck)

Fuel = 500 gal = approx 1520 litre
At 10p increase this equates to £152 per year.

In actual fact a cheap, simple method of road pricing - no need for fancy gadgets that someone can chat to .( or hypnotise to say your car aint moved) --the throwaways get hit .

Only problem - 50000 welshmen in swansea looking for jobs.( Not too bad though - more cheap second holiday homes on market)
Sorry two problems - the Sir Humphries saying it's too simple , therefore won't work


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 20:55 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
botach wrote:
Only problem - 50000 welshmen in swansea looking for jobs.( Not too bad though - more cheap second holiday homes on market)

As I said before, unless you're being really radical, you would still need a driver licensing and vehicle registration system which would keep most of them occupied.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 21:08 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9268
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
(tongue was very much in cheek in earlier posts)

Realise that pete, but since they're civil servants they'll get jobs elswhere - or brunstrom will be off on another witchunt


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 16:47 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 14:47
Posts: 1659
Location: A Dark Desert Highway
civil engineer wrote:
Now I'm a simple soul but if VED was abolished and fuel duty increased........wouldn't it be the perfect evasion proof tax?

no money spent to administer...nothing to enforce.....no need to pay for adverts.........bloody hell it may even be revenue neutral!



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! having a tax disc shows that the car has an MOT and is insured. The £110 for my road tax is no big deal, it shows I'm a responsible road user,. It also shows the car is registered to some body some where.

Lets say for the sake of arguement that there were some real live policemen on road that stopped people without tax that would kill many birds with one stone. Unroadworthy cars would be reduced, uninsured cars would be reduced and unregistered cars would be reduced. I'll bet those guys cause more problems than any other road user group.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 16:50 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
adam.L wrote:
civil engineer wrote:
Now I'm a simple soul but if VED was abolished and fuel duty increased........wouldn't it be the perfect evasion proof tax?

no money spent to administer...nothing to enforce.....no need to pay for adverts.........bloody hell it may even be revenue neutral!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! having a tax disc shows that the car has an MOT and is insured. The £110 for my road tax is no big deal, it shows I'm a responsible road user,. It also shows the car is registered to some body some where.

I agree - retaining the "tax disc" is essential to ensure that vehicles are being operated legally. Even if VED was abolished this would still be necessary.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 17:13 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
PeterE wrote:
I agree - retaining the "tax disc" is essential to ensure that vehicles are being operated legally. Even if VED was abolished this would still be necessary.


I don't agree with that at all.

In the first place it really isn't working. Uninsured driving is out of control.

In the second place the government is rapidly (attempting to?) moving towards electronic and automated records. If the plans work, then the number plate will tell considerably more than VED ever could.

In the third place the costs of collection of VED could pay for quite a bit of real policing.

No I think VED is WAY past its usefulness. Collecting and administering VED wastes too much resource and does not ensure that vehicles are operated legally.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Last edited by SafeSpeed on Sun Oct 30, 2005 17:21, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 17:18 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
SafeSpeed wrote:
PeterE wrote:
I agree - retaining the "tax disc" is essential to ensure that vehicles are being operated legally. Even if VED was abolished this would still be necessary.

I don't agree with that at all.

The point I was making was that there is a need for official registration of vehicles, for reasons such as ensuring they have MoTs and allowing them to be traceable by the police. Therefore, even if you eliminate VED, there is still a need for vehicle registration.

Without registration plates, anarchy and chaos would result on the roads.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 17:24 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 14:00
Posts: 1271
Location: Near Telford, UK / Barcelona, Spain
PeterE wrote:
The point I was making was that there is a need for official registration of vehicles, for reasons such as ensuring they have MoTs and allowing them to be traceable by the police. Therefore, even if you eliminate VED, there is still a need for vehicle registration.

Without registration plates, anarchy and chaos would result on the roads.

I don't think that Paul was advocating the abolition of number plates, merely that the old "tax disc" has had its day.

If it wasn't involving a government department with all the computer foul-ups that that entails, it'd be a relatively trivial exercise to carry a marker against every registration number's computer record to indicate its MOT state. The police query the DVLA database for registration / taxation details, the MOT would be reported at the same time.

_________________
"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 17:25 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
PeterE wrote:
The point I was making was that there is a need for official registration of vehicles, for reasons such as ensuring they have MoTs and allowing them to be traceable by the police. Therefore, even if you eliminate VED, there is still a need for vehicle registration.

Without registration plates, anarchy and chaos would result on the roads.


I agree there's a need for vehicle registration. The 'crime' just now is that the use of vehicle registration is becoming so onerous that the entire process is under threat as people realise that they are better off without a correctly registered vehicle.

I don't know what percentage of vehicles have to be incorrectly registered before the system becomes useless, but I reckon about 20% and we're at least half way there.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 17:33 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
SafeSpeed wrote:
PeterE wrote:
The point I was making was that there is a need for official registration of vehicles, for reasons such as ensuring they have MoTs and allowing them to be traceable by the police. Therefore, even if you eliminate VED, there is still a need for vehicle registration.

Without registration plates, anarchy and chaos would result on the roads.

I agree there's a need for vehicle registration. The 'crime' just now is that the use of vehicle registration is becoming so onerous that the entire process is under threat as people realise that they are better off without a correctly registered vehicle.

I don't know what percentage of vehicles have to be incorrectly registered before the system becomes useless, but I reckon about 20% and we're at least half way there.

I think this is one of those issues where people magnify tiny differences of opinion, but if seated round a pub table they would broadly agree with each other.

One conclusion that might be drawn from this is that we should make the driving test easier...

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 18:20 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 09:16
Posts: 3655
adam.L wrote:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! having a tax disc shows that the car has an MOT and is insured.


Not true. One of my bikes has an MOT and insurance renewal 2 months after the tax is due.

I could easily ride a bike that is not insured or MOTd for 10 months and still show a valid tax disc.

Also if you buy a car with valid tax you could drive it for the duration and still be "off the "grid" as far as the law is concerned, especialy if you gave false details when you bought it.

_________________
Speed camera policy Kills


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 19:16 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9268
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Gizmo wrote:
adam.L wrote:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! having a tax disc shows that the car has an MOT and is insured.


Not true. One of my bikes has an MOT and insurance renewal 2 months after the tax is due.

I could easily ride a bike that is not insured or MOTd for 10 months and still show a valid tax disc.

Also if you buy a car with valid tax you could drive it for the duration and still be "off the "grid" as far as the law is concerned, especialy if you gave false details when you bought it.


Simple solution to that scenario - is to abolish VED as a lost cause, put the cost on fuel - so everyone pays
use the DVLA system to register MOT and insurance but the disc expires when the earliest one expires.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.017s | 12 Queries | GZIP : Off ]