Safe Speed Forums

Hi can any one tell me if the Nip’s are braking the disability act I suffer from dyslexia and the Nip’s state that you have to fill it in your self and if you make a mistake you may lose the right to fixed penalty. How can I do that if I cannot spell and Wright properly and they brake the human rights law
George Orwell was right ……..police state more than you think help plz….. Dead Slow

_________________
I'm disgusted at the way this government is fleecing the people of this country. In particular the use of Speed cameras to mug motorists and claim its road safety. I'm disgusted at the threatening NIPs that people receive they break the human rights act

I moved this post to its own topic. I think the question is interesting and there maybe a range of related questions. For example:

* What's the exact responsibility of of someone with limited reading skills who receives a NIP?

* What's the exact responsibility of someone with limited writing skills who receives a NIP?

* What is the exact responsibility of someone who does not speak English but receives a NIP?

* What if the registered keeper is blind? (It's not as bizarre as it sounds - I'm sure that lots of blind people own a car and use a chauffeur, or are driven by a carer.)

* What if the registered keeper can't write because a temporary injury?

* And does the NIP process discriminate against any group?

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Perhaps not the NIP process and more the capture process discriminates against car drivers because a car doing 55 in a 50 on a single carrageway recieves an NIP but a truck doing 50 does not despite exceeding the speed limit by a greater margin. It indirectly discriminates against professional drivers who are punnished considerably more than a recreational driver. It indirectly discriminates against soldiers as they will suffer disciplinary action for receiving one if driving a military vehicle, and will not have the time to respond if on an operational commitment abroad. If I've heard correctly the MoD is actually so concernced over the loss of driving licences it is carrying out a survey so assess the impact on operational effectiveness.

Now that's a good story for the press. Where did you hear it? If it's right I want to follow it up urgently. Can you give me any further information at all?

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

If issued by me or my lads in person - we read it out and make sure person understands. I do speak some German and a bit of French - but then have had advantage of lots of free hols in Appenzell.... I think there is a range of NIPs in Welsh, Punjabi, Arabic - etc

The onus is on someone to help recipient of NIP... there is a help line and I do know CAB solicitors have completed in past and victim has signed - after all - they have to sign signatures on driving licences and passports.




Strange you should mention this - Mad Doc has asked both me and the family lawyer for advice on this very issue only recently. He has a patient who is RK but had licence revoked on medical grounds. He is considering placing this for the PH BiBs to mull over as well.... Basically person has received NIP and cannot identify driver as more than one carer used the car and he "cannot remember which one".

Admit - am at loss myself as to how to advise him and point his patient in right direction and am asking around - my initial advice was to find jolly good lawyer....who would have access to case law and precedents or even create a precedent.....




These are loopholes which are valid .....again the the RK if suffering from a sprain would need to contact the tickting office concerned and explain and medical evidence would have to be supplied. Under those circumstances - some amount of common sense would surely be applied.

as for the other question ... a veritable hormet's nest .....whih could only be tested in the courts

Hi. I should be able to give you the answer in a few weeks (or sooner) about dyslexia & NIPs.
I telephoned Warwickshire police and got through to the camera team.
I explained that I was late sending my NIP back as I was not able fill it in due to my Dyslexia, and could she advise me on how to complete it. She said “ it’s ok to let someone else fill it in for me and asked if it was possible for me to sign it. I said I could manage to do this.
I then said I was very concerned about the lateness of the NIP. She said I need not worry if I get it back soon as possible and that they will send a reminder any way (not had one to date)
So here I am waiting to see what happens. I will keep you all posted.
Special thanks to Idris Francis & Paul smith (Safe Speed) for all there help
Written on behalf of Dead slow by Jenny

Oh here’s a funny: my mate was pulled for ministry check. He said to cop who pulled him
“We don’t see many of you guys these days, its normally camera vans every where”
The cop replied “ There nothing to do with us mate, there run by the government”.

no news as to date still waiting

_________________
I'm disgusted at the way this government is fleecing the people of this country. In particular the use of Speed cameras to mug motorists and claim its road safety. I'm disgusted at the threatening NIPs that people receive they break the human rights act

Hi it has been a success. As its been over six months and nothing from them.
My solicitor has told me they are now out of time to prosecute me.
Thanks every one for the help, and I will carry one the fight for the end to speed cameras.
Special thanks to peter@makingsuccess.com who pointed me in the direction of Idris Francis,
Paul smith, of safe speed and the ABD
Thanks once again from deadslow@fsmail.net

_________________
I'm disgusted at the way this government is fleecing the people of this country. In particular the use of Speed cameras to mug motorists and claim its road safety. I'm disgusted at the threatening NIPs that people receive they break the human rights act

I know it's a bit late in the day but I believe this is simply not true.

The NIP can be filled in by anyone but must be signed by you.

Dead Mr Homer I can tell you that the NIP that I received from the Warwickshire police stated that the person it is addressed to must fill it in. I still have it if you do not believe me and I will happily send you a copy, you may e mail me at deadslow@fsmail.net
I am not saying that the dyslexia was tried in a court of law but I did contact the Dyslexia institute.
And I also put in my letter to Mr Booker (camera team) that I strongly believe that they are breaking the disability discrimination act by not giving any help line telephone numbers and also stating no other correspondence will be entered in to.
As well as that all NIP’s are not formatted the same there are regional differences. (Big differences)
Also I sent pictures of their Truvelo covered by near by trees. And there bad road signing
I presented all this information to my solicitor and in his words “ looks like you sacred them off”
it may be true that any one can fill the NIP in
but it did not state that

_________________
I'm disgusted at the way this government is fleecing the people of this country. In particular the use of Speed cameras to mug motorists and claim its road safety. I'm disgusted at the threatening NIPs that people receive they break the human rights act

No. I believe it says that on the NIP.

I also believe the scammers are fond of telling lies.

I've read enough on Pepipoo to know the lengths they will go to in order to force a confession.

You raise some interesting questions regarding disability and discrimination which are of course very valid and need addressing.
The NIP can be filled in by anyone on behalf of the subjct of that NIP with the signature of the subject validating he information so contained.
You will find that all Police Forces (I understand) have and continue to train officers and support staff in race and diversity matters, the training we received was excellent. All offices of the constabularies will make efforts to assist those with disabilities of any kind as well as provide translation facilities should they be necessary. We haven't had to produce a braille NIP as yet but I would suggest that should a request from a registered blind person be received then one would be produced. Hopefully that won't result in a rush of requests from the unscrupulous (spellink!) as that would be rather distasteful.

The really interesting thing is that you have managed to produce your postings, have written to the ticket office manager, have called the ticket office and contacted the dislexia society but have found it most difficult to manage to write your name and address or that of a nominated driver on the S172!
Perhaps you have got someone else to complete your postings or have overcome your dislexia through massive effort, most commendable, perhaps you could have applied the same common sense and effort to the form.

I do not want to offend or discriminate in any way and please accept my most sincere apologies right now but I forward this as an observation of your postings upon which you may comment. Should this offend then please say and I will remove them upon request.

It was already stated that his postings were his words typed and posted by 'Jenny'. So, maybe, an apology is in order.

Not at all. Why didn't Jenny fill in the S172 and forward it on with the subjects signature? Surely you don't believe that it was because it said that the recipient had to fill it in themselves. Now you and I know you are not that gullible.

Did you read all the posts? The NIP said to fill it in himself and it wasn't until he phoned them that he was told it was okay for someone else to do it for him, with him just signing it afterwards. AFAICT that's just what happened.

_________________
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Well lets get down to the nitty gritty.
1) Signing the NIP. Yes, I can manage to sign my name, unlike the Scamara partnerships I have come across. In which I believe that your NIPs are mechanically signed therefore technically are a forgery.

2) Why didn't Jenny fill in the S172? She (Jenny) is a 17-year-old student who’s only dealings with the Police were when she was attacked. She reported it to the police with the name and address of attacker and got no help from them. However if you do 35mph in a 30 limit and God help you, you’re caught by Gatso etc the police will go to the ends of the earth in order to prosecute you. In the end she did fill it in for me, but what if it was wrong? Who would be responsible?

3) (The 172) this in itself I believe is being taken to the European court of human rights.
“As in if you do not confess to the crime you may get a harsher punishment.” (The right to silence.)

4) As to your professional and high quality training that you mention, I find it absurd that you can refer to a visually impaired person as “blind.” Surely this is discrimination in itself and not what the Police force would like to promote?? Similarly, you personally recommend that as not to “discriminate” an NIP could be introduced in Braille format for people that are in your words “blind.” Perhaps if you were to “use your common sense,” you would realise that the relevance of a Braille NIP is not necessary as a person that suffers with such poor eyesight to require Braille would not be able to drive, let alone see a speed camera or the speed limit of the road that they were driving on?
I do not wish to offend or discriminate in any way, but with all due respect someone of your intellectual stature and professional training in anti-discrimination would understand that “dislexia” is in actual fact spelt dyslexia. Maybe I am not the only person to suffer with this?

Written on behalf of Dead Slow

Because in the usual threatening scamerati style the isnstructions given to him were that he must fill it in himself! I'm suprised you don't accompany the NIP with a horses head on the pillow.

You can have several degrees of visual impairment, visually impaired has no quantity. You can be slightly visually impaired, severely visually impaired, visually impaired to a certain % of normal sight or totally visually impaired. Those persons who are 100% or totally visually impaired are 'blind', which in the visually impaired sense of the word means unable to see either permanently or temporarily. To discriminate has more than one sense to the word, it could mean to make a distinction, i.e. to identify an object or person by its feature or characteristic, it can also mean or to identify persons by characteristic, i.e. colour, race, disability, diversity for unjust reasons. There is nothing in my posting that can be construed by the word 'blind' that is unjustly discriminating as the word is used merely to describe rather than discriminate. It is very "PC" to describe someone who is blind as visually impaired or optically challenged etc but to use a non-offensive word that means that someone is 100% visually impaired cannot by very nature of the word itself be construed as discriminating. So the training you mentioned has worked, not that I really needed a lot of it as I already tried not to discriminate on any ground before I received it but it did highlight the crap that is spoken by many on the subject and opened my mind to many areas which I did not consider before. So there you go, 'blind' is OK to use as a description of someone as that is what some people are, use the word in a discriminating manner rather than a descriptive manner and you may get into trouble but the word and description on their own are fine. Should the person so described object then I would ask just how they would like their disability to be described so it can be identified in a helpful and beneficial way for them.
As far as the ridiculous claim you make for a blind (yes blind) person owning a vehicle and being the registered keeper, I should think there are many of them so you may be the one that is being discriminatory now. I would suggest that none of them drive but they could still be the owner of the vehicle. See your chum’s remarks above.

Just for the record, I am an optically challenged, disabled ex serviceman with a daughter in a mixed race relationship and have 2 mixed race grandchildren and try not to make anything of it as I couldn’t give a stuff what peoples opinions are on all of these matters are unless they are discriminatory, I have yet to experience it. If someone says I'm disabled, that's what I am, I don't take it as a derogatory remark as their description is accurate, now what is wrong with that they could be trying to help! I would say with confidence that almost all people I work with are not aware of any disability I have and most of all I would not try to use it as a way of gaining advantage over others.

I'm not at all sure if you have used a disadvantage in reading, writing or comprehension in responding or not responding to your FPN/NIP, that is for you to know and I am not suggesting you have but for anyone to consider the use of a disability of any kind in such a manner does service to no one.

I'll limp off now and try not to bump into anything.

It's a thought! Congratulations on having one.

So as a partnership employee you’re instructing people to ignore some of the instruction on a NIP but your partnership will give people a fine/court appearance and points on there license for not following all the instruction on the NIP?

So witch one is it?

Obey the law or disobey the law or is it a case of only obeying the rules if it suits your Partnerships interest and not the motorist?