Safe Speed Forums

Last year I was caught speeding, 40 in a 30 limit, by speed camera. To get caught I had passed 1 off 30 sign (integrated into a village name sign), 1 off reminder post (well back on the verge partly behind a parked 4 x 4) and the camera (also well back on the verge & behind a road sign). This on a nice wide "A" road. Why the 30 limit ? My only slight excuse was that I was looking for a turning. Since then I have become very aware of speed signs, and in some cases the lack of them. Many local authorities use coloured backgrounds, for me the Yellow background is what I remember, not the number within. Grey background, I remember the number better than for no background. Anybody else find the same effect ? Has any research been done ? I also note that many road works have mandatory 30 (or even 20) signs going in, and nothing coming out. I have not yet had the guts to ask the local police where the speed limit ends in this case.

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BCStark

30 limits do not require and in fact are not allowed to have "reminder posts".



The end of roadworks sign serves as the end of restriction sign.

Thanks for that. Now you make me think about it, it was a camera warning sign, quite small & high up. You do raise a very interesting point -
WHY should 30 reminders not be allowed ?

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BCStark

i believe all raods with lights are by 'default' a 30, with local councils have to de-restict them to other limits.

Though I could be talking crap....

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uzz

In a simplified nut shell:

Roads with street lighting, lamps not more than 200 yards apart, are automatically 'restricted roads' on which a 30mph limit automatically applies. On such roads, repeater signs are not allowed; the lamps themselves in effect act as defacto repeater signs for the 30mph limit. A different speed limit may be introduced on such a road by revoking its restricted status and applying the new limit; repeater signs would then be required.

Other roads are 'derestricted' and national speed limits apply unless an order has been made to apply a specific limit; appropriate signage, including repeaters would then be required.

The ABD site has much more info on speed limits and signing, and the statutes governing them.


Kaz

On the A23 London Road in Brighton where the speed limit is now 30mph (having been 40mph at the start of the stretch) I seem to recall they post the speed limit on the cameras themselves. so as you approach the camera you know what the speed limit is.

I'd like to see this done also on the A316 near Chiswick Bridge where the limit is 40 but a lot of people slow down because they think it is only 30.

My understanding from the speaker at the abd meeting was this...

the signs showing the speed limit have to be in a perscribed form, they can't be on any old colour , shape or bacground.

signs that dont comply means there is no speed limit. so u can do 7o mph thru what might be considered by others to be a 40 limit..

If u have a case of being caught, the signs are not in the correct format , (a book of signs is available from amazon) u will win in court and I have the experts phone number, which u will be pleased to know the court will pay for !

Another twist, some street lights are carridgeway lights, and the limit is 30 mph, and the 200 yards apart is a must, 201 yards and there is no limit. Some lights are not carridgeway lights, in which case a 30 mph limit is not allowed, regardless of how many 30 mph signs they put up..


rgds
Bill

The National Speed Limit still applies, so you would only be able to do 70 if a dual carriageway, otherwise 60.


This used to be the case, but the law was changed after some motorists were being acquitted of speeding on what was perceived as a technicality.

See: http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_504746.hcsp

"The 1994 Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions simplified the requirements for the placement of terminal and repeater signs used to indicate a speed limit, and introduced some new prescribed sizes. The intention was to give greater flexibility in the placement of signs. This would overcome the situation where signs placed marginally too far apart have had the effect of making the limit unenforceable. The 1994 Regulations thus specify simply that signs should be placed at regular intervals."

I would imagine you would only be able to obtain an acquittal if you could show that the regularity of repeaters fell well outside the recommendations of the TSRGD.

Regards,

Peter

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

When 30 mph limits did effectively coincide with built-up areas, and built-up areas were a lot smaller than they are today, the prohibition of repeaters was reasonable. If there were repeaters on some roads and not on others, it might prove confusing, and to put repeaters on all urban roads would be extremely expensive and lead to unnecessary clutter.

However, we are now seeing highway authorities impose 30 mph limits on more and more roads that are not obviously of an "urban" character. I'm sure most of us here will agree that they shouldn't be doing that in the first place, but given that they are, surely it will promote adherence to the speed limit to allow and indeed encourage the use of repeaters in non-urban 30s. It isn't reasonable to expect drivers to count street lights to work out what the limit is.

A couple of years ago the ABD did a very good press release on this entitled Speed Limit Signs, Clarity and Safety

Regards,

Peter

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

peter said...

This used to be the case, but the law was changed after some motorists were being acquitted of speeding on what was perceived as a technicality.

See: http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/d ... 04746.hcsp


thanks peter..



b*g**r

rgds
bill

Reply to Peter -
a very sensible proposal.
I rest my case.
Regards, Bryan

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BCStark

I lived in Germany for a number of years. The system there is ultra simple, when you enter a town/sity/village, you have the name of the place in black lettering on a white background. This means 50kph!!!!!.

When you leave the town/etc, the name of the place is repeated, only in grey lettering on white, with a Red diagonal line through the whole of the sign, this means NSL applies.

With both of these signs, there could be another sign giving a different speed limit. There was no need for 50kph signs at all.

Also, on motorways, if there were roadworks, instead of like here, a warning of a reduced limit then BANG, the reduced limit, they used a system of reducing limit signs, so as to bring the speed limit down slowly as opposed to our system of everybody going balls to the wall till the reduced limit, then slam on, thats if they bother.

Remember, on most of the German motorways, there is no speed limit. If you and your car, and the conditions permitted, you could go as fast as you wanted.
Driving slowly on the motorways was just as likely to get you booked as driving too fast. Driving slowly was seen as dangerous driving.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

But just imagine that system being used in the UK. You'd be driving along a road in the middle of the countryside, suddenly to see a sign saying "Little Snoring". You slow down to 30, continue driving, and half a mile later you've only passed one cottage. So you speed up a bit, thinking you've missed something, and promptly get caught by a Talivan lurking in a layby.

It depends on an element of trust that the speed limits bear some relationship to the road environment.

Regards,

Peter

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I've been through Little Snoring and there's two houses.
Seriously, the Germans when I was out there didn't take the p/ss like in this country and have ten miles of 30mph for two houses, it would be not much more than a 100 metres or so, or it would be blindingly obvious why the limit was low.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.