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 Post subject: Mini :30: signs
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 23:13 
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Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Can't remember where I saw it, but it was possibly around the Coventry area. Somewhere near Fillongley. i'd entered a :30: limit and a bit further on I came across a very small ( possibly 6" dia) :30: sign, exact in details to the normal :30: sign . Legality of limit crossed my mind/

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 Post subject: Re: Mini :30: signs
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 18:26 
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It was probably a repeater. They are allowed for in regulations IF that road is a 30 limit and has non-compliant or no street lighting. Also if attached to a camera warning sign.

And.org.UK/speed_limit_signs.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Mini :30: signs
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 21:19 
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Location: West Midlands
jomukuk wrote:
It was probably a repeater. They are allowed for in regulations IF that road is a 30 limit and has non-compliant or no street lighting. Also if attached to a camera warning sign.

And.org.UK/speed_limit_signs.htm

...or maybe even http://www.abd.org.uk/speed_limit_signs.htm

;)

mb


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 Post subject: Re: Mini :30: signs
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 22:38 
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Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
The street lights seem to be correct spacing, so a repeater would make the limit unenforceable. Boomer, can't see which option in ABD you refer to ,. but sign was coloured as per the large :30: sign, but I'd say it was the same size as those used on the camera advice signs, but no mention of camera, so in fact it was a repeater.

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 Post subject: Re: Mini :30: signs
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 00:00 
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Built-up areas where there is street lighting and a 30mph speed limit are the major exception to the requirement to provide speed limit repeater signs. Direction 11 of TSRGD, paragraph (4), states:

(4) The sign shown in diagram 670 (except when displayed on a variable message sign in the manner mentioned in regulation 58(7)(b)) shall not be placed along —
(a) a road on which there is provided a system of carriageway lighting furnished by lamps lit by electricity placed not more than 183 metres apart in England and Wales or not more than 185 metres apart in Scotland and which is subject to a speed limit of 30mph;
Note that 'shall not be placed' means that repeater signs are prohibited under the conditions specified in subparagraph (a), not just that they are not required. The 183 metre maximum spacing for street lamps in England and Wales is the metric equivalent of the 200 yards specified in the Act.

The reference in the subparagraph to a system of 'carriageway' lighting is potentially significant. The carriageway is that part of the highway intended for the use of vehicles, as defined in section 329 of the Highways Act 1980, so a system of carriageway lighting must be designed to illuminate the roadway itself and not just the footways. The 1980 Act, section 270, defines a 'footway lighting system' and a 'road lighting system' as follows:
"footway lighting system" means a system of lighting, provided for a highway, which satisfies the following conditions, namely, that either —
(a) no lamp is mounted more than 13 feet above ground level, or
(b) no lamp is mounted more than 20 feet above ground level and there is at least one interval of more than 50 yards between adjacent lamps in the system;
"road lighting system" means a lighting system that is not a footway lighting system.
Subparagraph (a) makes it clear that, where street lamps are less than 13 feet (3.96 metres) high, they constitute a footway lighting system, not a 'road' lighting system, regardless of their spacing. (In this context, 'road' is synonymous with 'street' or 'highway', in meaning any part of the carriageway, footways and verges. Thus a 'road lighting system' would include a carriageway lighting system, but a 'footway lighting system' would not.)

Subparagraph (b) says that, where street lamps are between 13 feet (3.96 metres) and 20 feet (6.1 metres) high, they constitute a road lighting system only if there are no gaps greater than 50 yards (45.7 metres) between any pair of lamps in the system. Only street lamps higher than 20 feet (6.1 metres) automatically qualify as a road lighting system, subject to the 183 metres maximum spacing in direction 11, paragraph (4)(a) of TSRGD.

As described further on, direction 37 of TSRGD sets out the circumstances in which a temporary sign may be placed to warn drivers of a new 30mph speed limit in a built-up area. This direction includes wording virtually identical to that in direction 11, paragraph (4)(a), except that it refers to 'a system of street or carriageway lighting', not just to carriageway lighting. It could be, therefore, that there is an error in the drafting of direction 11, which means that 30mph repeater signs are required where only a footway lighting system exists.

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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