Safe Speed Forums

Very interesting thread here on the Advanced Driving UK forum:

http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4436

Concludes with a spectacular throwing of rattle out of pram because the OP can't cope with others having different opinions from his own

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

On reading it I immediately thought (especially with the name, Steve) of our old friend Greenshield or one of his aliases like "Good driver Dick" or whatever other wierdos that we get on SafeSpeed occasionally. It certainly reads like a wind up to an outsider reading it.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

A couple of points I would have picked him up on would have been (a)



After admitting he nearly always drives on motorways at 60MPH

and (b)

Many self righteous drivers seem to think that by driving at 60MPH on the straights and then slowing to about 30MPH at the slightest dip or bend in the road before accelerating back to 60MPH on the straight makes them a very good/safe/lawabiding, driver when in reality they are usually far worse than the 40MPH everywhere ditherer, who can usually be overtaken safely and quickly forgotten about.

So the reason people sometimes overtake people who are driving at 60MPH on the straights, is because you know that they are going to drop down to a ridiculously low speed at the next slight bend and hold up your progress considerably.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Yes, I quite often overtake cars doing a reasonable speed on the straight because I know they will slow to a crawl at any bend or other deviation. I find myself cursing when I have simply not troubled myself to overtake someone and then get baulked for miles.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Never a truer word spoken! I get that pretty much EVERY day (living where I do) and it drives me MAD! I had a boss once, who used to drive like that. He had a pretty powerful Mercedes at the time and I SO wished I had a paper bag to put over my head when I was out with him! I could FEEL the frustration of the queue behind him who had to put up with mile after mile of 30MPH on SC rural roads, only to be out-accelerated up to the NSL every time we got to a straight long enough to allow an overtake.

There's a steep hill not far from where I used to live, on a road that I used to use daily and it always amazed me the number of "over 40's naughty" drivers, who would follow a lorry at 40MPH on the approach to the hill, even though it was apparent that they were approaching a steep hill and you had plenty of opportunity to overtake,before hand and yet they would then have to crawl up the hill at 5-10MPH for miles.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I don't mind people doing that, if they're not in a hurry, but what gets me is that they then follow each other so closely, that once you've got three or four of them, it becomes near-impossible to safely overtake them as a group in the space available. Not leaving a gap big enough to allow a faster vehicle to "leapfrog" along the queue when you've no intention of overtaking, is one of the most selfish (and frequently exhibited) driving traits that I regularly see.

Yes, I had a classic example yesterday evening. A long queue formed behind someone doing 40mph while the limit rose to 50mph and then to NSL. I was 5th in line and this is generally too long a queue to overtake. Even more annoying was that the guy in front of me (in an Evoque) was far too close to the car in front and kept on touching the brakes putting me on constant alert.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Reading through the various comments it seemed the most relevant was the comment that basically said it doesn't matter what the speed limit is, it should not make you any safer or less safe. In other words if you are driving correctly then you should be driving at the appropriate speed for the conditions.

I was thinking this the other day after driving along a 40 MPH limited road that was straight with low density housing and wide verges between the road and pavement. The roads going off were narrow country lanes with entrances to properties directly on the road but set to NSL. It would be impossible to drive safely at 60mph along these lanes so users have to use their own judgement as to a safe speed. Why is it that one is assumed to be able to judge the correct speed to drive at in the higher risk area, yet is controlled to a limit, in my view far too low for the general conditions, on a road with far better vision and less risks, albeit with a higher density of traffic?

That's simple to answer.

The people setting speed limits these days have no idea of a safe speed, so pander to the wishes of the local W.I. who are known to be safety experts nationwide.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Definitely a clear case of wrong speed limits and total loss of trust in the system of setting speed limits and hence the complete disregard of them.
If people 'believe' something to be wrong it doesn't matter how many enforcement actions you take they will continue to ignore it and trust their own judgement.
I many ways this is good as it has to be one's own responsibility to ensure that one is safe and selecting the correct speed for the road is extremely crucial to road safety - from all perspectives.
A Council stated once when choosing a speed limit that vehicles didn't realise that there was a school nearby and many children used to the over bridge to cross the road and thus that whole stretch of road was then artificially reduced ! That is precisely the problem. Placing up clear signs of school children potentially crossing and perhaps additional barriers to ensure children were encouraged to cross using the bridge is far better than reducing the enire stretch of road even after the occasional event.

This directly causes mis-trust in the setting of speed limits and so people continue to choose an approximately safe speed - although there are many who fail to recognise developing hazards and fail to adjust speeds properly, nor position their vehicle appropriately to ensure additional safety when necessary.
That is the crux of the matter too along with courtesy.

People do seem to regularly drive without that much consideration of their fellow road users and what they may do and how they may act. Helping to drive allowing for others needs to be seriously and generously considered.

It is always advised to to notify that local Council immediately of roads whose speed limit seems to low - they do sometimes raise them but telling them is a good first step.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

S/He misses the point. Speed limits are set for three prime reasons :
1) to firmly guide inexperienced and under-skilled drivers away from exceeding safe limits by wild margins
2) to provide a ready means of prosecution of those who use speed dangerously
3) to provide a standard warning of expected hazard density

So when the speed limits are set wrong it badly alters these points and learned behaviours.
When the 85th%ile was used, it all 'made sense' and most drivers were not outwith the Law, but now with artificially set low limits, when they use the 'average mean', we now regularly see a deliberately and artificially set lower than necessary speed limit, that makes the majority illegal.
That is seriously dangerous for all road safety.
Slower is not necessarily safer.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

He obviously doesn't realise how speed limits are set these days. Not as they were, by a majority consensus of what is and what isn't safe but a minority of local nimbys who don't like traffic "speeding" past their house.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I agree entirely, so why have strictly enforced speed limits?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Because the 10% +2 or even +3 now in Sussex isn't enough as that enables people to travel at the previous or close to the previous 85th%ile and so anything over becomes (now) very illegal.
A policeman can still book you for exceeding the posted limit if you are 1 mph over it (although that is extremely rare).

That statement of a learned speed is not true for all people and that must be remembered and add to it the learned road environments and the speed 'expected', it all becomes altered and changed when speed limits are set incorrectly.
You might instinctively go around 40mph in a previous standard 40mph area and now reduced to 30mph might easily see you slip back up to 38 or more.
It is no longer a speed set for the environmental conditions but one that is arbitrary.

I was on a 3 lane road the other day, and it was completely pointlessly set to a 50mph with camera in place to ensure compliance, for no valid reason whatsoever.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.