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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 01:14 
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Weepies argument doesn't take into consideration that some people can manouvere a car better with one hand than some can with two hands.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 08:48 
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graball wrote:
Weepies argument doesn't take into consideration that some people can manouvere a car better with one hand than some can with two hands.


Yes it does; do keep up.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 08:57 
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Mole wrote:
You could say that about changing gear too...

...or changing channel on the radio.



I actually got a couple of marks on my driving test for changing gear whilst going round a corner, the examiner said he'd like to be able to fail people on it but wasn't able to.

I'm not suggesting people shouldn't change gear when driving, it's a necessary part of it for those with manual cars, but is is a distraction and should be done as quickly as possible as to free that hand up, and only when you're not manoeuvring the vehicle.

Smoking, playing with the radio, using a phone, doing make up whilst driving are unnecessary distractions.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 22:04 
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So, if we looked at the figures, we'd be able to see that cars with manual transmissions were involved in proportionately more accidents than their automatic counterparts then? (not holding my breath, mind...).

I think the reason your examiner didn't like you changing gear mid-bend, is that it's poor practice as far as vehicle stability is concerned, rather than anything to do with concentration. Modern cars are pretty forgiving, but if you end up in an older, and more powerful car in conditions of low grip, it might not thank you for it!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 23:21 
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graball wrote:
Weepies argument doesn't take into consideration that some people can manouvere a car better with one hand than some can with two hands.

Weepies argument don't take into consideration that we drive cars, he pilots bikes . And I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that he rides a trike, under a bridge - as per a TROLL

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 07:12 
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botach wrote:
Weepies argument don't take into consideration that we drive cars, he pilots bikes . And I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that he rides a trike, under a bridge - as per a TROLL


Oh dear.

I own and drive a car too botach, I am part of the "we" you mention there, I am a motorist.

I ride a bike to work because I work in London and it would be utter madness to drive a car, it would take twice as long to get to work and cost a fortune in parking and congestion charge.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 14:48 
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weepej wrote:
I actually got a couple of marks on my driving test for changing gear whilst going round a corner, the examiner said he'd like to be able to fail people on it but wasn't able to.

I'm not suggesting people shouldn't change gear when driving, it's a necessary part of it for those with manual cars, but is is a distraction and should be done as quickly as possible as to free that hand up, and only when you're not manoeuvring the vehicle.
Yes, I remember this from my test too Weepej; about not changing on a bend. I can see the thinking behind it but, just my theory, it may well have been before PAS became commonplace and steering became easy. (I think it's standard on kids cars from Toys R Us now). :D

One can easily forget what cars are like without PAS. I confess I had before I bought my latest car; a 22 year-old Micra. If you had to steer with one hand while going around a bend in mine it would be quite difficult; and without PAS the steering tends to move back to a more central position of course which resists what you want it to do. I remember my ex girlfriend’s Volvo 343 from yonks ago and when I drove it I swear I stopped and got out to check one or both of the front tyres weren’t flat!

weepej wrote:
Smoking, playing with the radio, using a phone, doing make up whilst driving are unnecessary distractions.
I completely agree with you. The emphasis on “unnecessary” as you, and me, both say.

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You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 18:41 
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Quote:
I'm not suggesting people shouldn't change gear when driving, it's a necessary part of it for those with manual cars, but is is a distraction and should be done as quickly as possible as to free that hand up`


Are you really serious? Do you consider changing gear a distraction? I can't say that I give it any thought, it comes naturally...certainly not a distraction to me being on the phone whilst chewing a sandwich...;-)

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 23:28 
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Perhaps in the interests of road safety ,all manual gearboxes should be outlawed , sound equipment outlawed or made voice operative, and drivers made to sit in a soundproof booth :shock: :loco: . And then all cyclists forced to take the equivalent of a bike CBT, pay a contribution to road upkeep ,have insurance for both road and personal accident use and carry some form of identification on the exterior of the bike. Seems fair- if cyclists can shout about drivers responsibilities and obligations then we need a level playing field. Locally we've got a long running dispute in a town centre about cars driving the wrong way . I do go in after the bollards are lowered ( and before Weepy shouts- there's classes of vehicles allowed - loading and Blue badge - and I've got a badge. ) . I see few if any cars driving the wrong way ,but cyclists- there more of a problem than the scatty pedestrians. Most ride the wrong way, I'm waiting to find one limbo dancing under my car and there's little respect for pedestrians.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 08:10 
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botach wrote:
And then all cyclists forced to take the equivalent of a bike CBT, pay a contribution to road upkeep ,have insurance for both road and personal accident use and carry some form of identification on the exterior of the bike



As much as you like to think motoring taxes are used to pay for the roads so you can look own on cyclists as freeloaders using the roads you pay for, they don't, they're just a form of general taxation, not hypothicated for road spending. Road spending come from general taxation and council tax.

Compulsory testing, insurance and registration for cyclists? Never going to happen.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 21:13 
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weepej wrote:
botach wrote:
And then all cyclists forced to take the equivalent of a bike CBT, pay a contribution to road upkeep ,have insurance for both road and personal accident use and carry some form of identification on the exterior of the bike



As much as you like to think motoring taxes are used to pay for the roads so you can look own on cyclists as freeloaders using the roads you pay for, they don't, they're just a form of general taxation, not hypothicated for road spending. Road spending come from general taxation and council tax.

Compulsory testing, insurance and registration for cyclists? Never going to happen.

And where does the assistance top up of council tax come from -from HMG ,DEAR WEEPY .

And there we have it ,from a person who tries to maintain that cyclists are not freeloaders who wish to use something they don't directly contribute to , are not willing to take steps to be responsible for any damage they cause or be traceable if they break laws .
unless of course , this are the words of one maintaining this line for other reasons .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 23:05 
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graball wrote:
Quote:
I'm not suggesting people shouldn't change gear when driving, it's a necessary part of it for those with manual cars, but is is a distraction and should be done as quickly as possible as to free that hand up`


Are you really serious? Do you consider changing gear a distraction? I can't say that I give it any thought, it comes naturally...certainly not a distraction to me being on the phone whilst chewing a sandwich...;-)


:lol: he's still not answered my question yet - about whether cars with manual transmissions figure disproportionately highly in the accident statistics... but then, "evidence-based" policy is the very LAST thing we'd want...right? :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 23:08 
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weepej wrote:
botach wrote:
And then all cyclists forced to take the equivalent of a bike CBT, pay a contribution to road upkeep ,have insurance for both road and personal accident use and carry some form of identification on the exterior of the bike



As much as you like to think motoring taxes are used to pay for the roads so you can look own on cyclists as freeloaders using the roads you pay for, they don't, they're just a form of general taxation, not hypothicated for road spending. Road spending come from general taxation and council tax.

Compulsory testing, insurance and registration for cyclists? Never going to happen.


Oh...yawn... not that one again?! Yes, we all know that Weepy. You're quite right, motoring taxes go into "general taxation"... (so maybe you even owe us for a few cycle paths somewhere along the line too, eh?)!

Slice it any way you like, the guy driving the car is giving more money to the exchequer than the man riding the bike!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 06:46 
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Mole wrote:
Slice it any way you like, the guy driving the car is giving more money to the exchequer than the man riding the bike!


Absolute nonsense.

Did you read what you just wrote?

You think you pay more or less tax than Chris Hoy for instance?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 06:49 
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botach wrote:
cyclists are freeloaders who wish to use something they don't directly contribute to


Motoring taxes do not "directly contribute" to the roads, they just go into a general pot, you may as well say your motoring taxes paid for part of that aircraft carrier or a bit of that bed on the hospital ward.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 06:50 
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Mole wrote:
so maybe you even owe us for a few cycle paths somewhere along the line too, eh?)!


How do you work that out?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 08:46 
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Mole wrote:
Oh...yawn... not that one again?!


Why didn't you say this to the poster that dragged motoring taxes into this in the first place? It wasn't me.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:11 
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weepej wrote:
Mole wrote:
Slice it any way you like, the guy driving the car is giving more money to the exchequer than the man riding the bike!


Absolute nonsense.

Did you read what you just wrote?

You think you pay more or less tax than Chris Hoy for instance?


Sorry, meant to say "...than the SAME man riding the bike" - precisely because I knew you'd come back with some "special case" example comparing two individuals. Yes, Richard Branson probably contributes more to the exchequer than me (whether he rides a pushbike or not) but you know what? When he's driving a car, he'll be paying EVEN MORE!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:14 
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weepej wrote:
Mole wrote:
so maybe you even owe us for a few cycle paths somewhere along the line too, eh?)!


How do you work that out?


Are cycle paths not constructed out of "general taxation" then? Are they built solely from revenues collected from cyclists? If our "road tax" (sorry, Vehicle Excise Duty :wink: ) goes into "general taxiation" - as you're so fond of telling us, then why can't some of it have been spent on cycle paths?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:27 
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Mole wrote:
Are cycle paths not constructed out of "general taxation" then?


Yes they are just like roads.

I still don't get your point.


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