Safe Speed Forums

Just a "heads-up if anyone fancies contributing to the government consultation on this - it closes on 1st of Feb.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... eway-roads

A quick internet search comes up with plenty of hysterical "anti" responses from Brake (and others) of course. I didn't look at all of them but I loved the one from a cycling organisation about "an HGV braking hard from 50 will obviously cause more road damage than one braking hard from 40...". Yeah, obviously... . There were also various other responses along the lines of "no, the limit should stay the same AND be lowered for other classes of vehicles to encourage motorised transport not to use them".

To my mind, I think it's probably one of the biggest single improvements that could be made to the safety of rural single carriageways, judging by the number of potentially suicidal overtakes I see on a weekly basis, but maybe there aren't many such fatalities or serious injuries - I simply don't know. It would be nice to see an evidence-based approach to this instead of a "hysteria-based" one.

I vote no.
Because some drivers chose to "suicidally overtake" is no reason to increase the [necessary] speed limit.
The speed limit of 90KPH is not alterable by the government anyway because it is mandated by the EU.
The 40MPH limit on single carriageway roads is widely ignored by a extremely large percentage of drivers anyway.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

So surely a good reason for bringing the law into line with what actually happens.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Perhaps it's time to return to what served in latter days- the 85th percentile,for cars and other vehicles on this type of road. ( And perhaps other types of road).Before the idiotic EU mandate, we had HGV travelling a bit faster. We also had police out there to remind the professionals that no licence meant no job.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I'm not even we could measure a "free traveling speed" any more, because drivers are so conditioned to:
(a) existing speed limits and
(b) any kind of visible speed monitoring device (or thing that looks like it MIGHT be one).
Speaking as someone who regularly drive 40 miles to Carlisle on a perfectly good SC "A" road and usually sees at least one (in my view) dodgy overtake per trip, I would have thought it was high time we looked at the SC speed limit. OK, I'm probably in an odd situation living in a remote part of the country where a significant amount of my time & distance is covered on roads like this and traffic densities are lower than elsewhere in the country, but you certainly notice when the local scamera partnership are having a clamp-down because the traffic moves much more slowly as all the trucks tighten up compliance and drive at a pointlessly low speed for a week or so. When they're not, the traffic flows much better.

The speed limits are because when you have a truck accident it is much worse than the usual car accident.
A laden 40 tonner takes a very significant amount of time to stop, that's if the driver is even looking at the road and not watching a dvd or chatting on a mobile.
Oh, here's one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=l_eiP8sk_KQ

That's a 50 limit...

Not forgetting jacknifing...yep, pity trucks cannot be restricted to nightime only....preferably 0200 to 0600.
Seen too many sitting in laybys with a pile of lager/cider cans outside the window.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

No they don't! Read your HC! ALL vehicles take the same distance to stop - it says so!


...none of which I see as any kind of justification for a 40 limit on NSL SCs! Sorry, but I've seen car driver's who have had a skinfull the night before, and I don't see it as any justification for reducing speed limits for cars. I see nothing in that video that couldn't have happened at 40 to be honest. Unfortunately, the accident statistics don't provide sufficient information, but what the government OUGHT to do is weigh up the number of KSIs caused by lunatic frustrated overtakes of HGVs doing 40 against those caused by HGVs doing more than 40 on NSL SCs. I've a feeling, the former will be the larger number.

What the government weighed-up when it was instituted was the kinetic energy in the vehicles and the damage that heavy vehicles do to the road.
No doubt the RHA have been whinging again. The truckers are always whinging about something, including having no facilities to rest at, which they don't use anyway preferring laybys....with the inevitable human detritus for others to walk in next day. Oh, and they're whinging about trackers now...something about their human rights.....b#######..When a large s/mart chain did their trucks their fuel costs went down by 17%...purely because the drivers had routes they were supposed to stick to, but didn't (look up "dogging").
Now they do. Tough.
And they're hazards on any road....I've said before, i am fed-up with a mile of trucks with not cars length between them on m/ways....try planning an exit with that crap, AND I'm fed-up with their "I'm a trucker with 40 tonnes, get out of my way little person" attitude on slip roads.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

[quote="jomukuk"
And they're hazards on any road....I've said before, i am fed-up with a mile of trucks with not cars length between them on m/ways....try planning an exit with that crap, AND I'm fed-up with their "I'm a trucker with 40 tonnes, get out of my way little person" attitude on slip roads.[/quote]


I regularly do a trip from J2-J3 on the M6.We've got some of the most idiotic idiots on this stretch. Some hog the middle lane at 60. I look for a bit of room on the outside at rthe 1M marker, and then look for a gap ( preferably between two HGV ) on L1, and move into L2. I then indicate my intention to move from L2 TO L1 to the HGV, giving the HGV a bit of room. Most time I get a headlamp flash. I've been driving approx 45 years and over 2Million miles, and the truckers I've encountered who were plonkers are few. Let them know your intention - ask for a bit of courtesy ,and they will try ( their best) to help you out. It's not the truckers who are plonkers, but the law makers who fail to give these PROFESSIONAL drivers the respect they deserve.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

The impact assessment assumes no change in pollution because 70% of >7.5tonne already travel at or near the proposed increased speed limit.
The modelled increase in casualties is on the low side (5.5-7.5% (ish)), modelled from accidents featuring >3.5 - <7.5 T which already travel at 50.
An interesting assumption given that they already state that most >7.5 travel at between 43-49 on sc roads.
And that they assume that the drivers will not do what they state they do at the moment.....travel within the 10%+2 figure.
Personally, having read their rather rambling assessment report, I consider it a quite nice way of making/altering law.....if an accident is caused by a driver overtaking a vehicle travelling at the legal maximum the adopted approach is to increase the speed limit applying to the slower vehicle. Given, as stated, that the majority of >7.5 travel at the lower proposed increase (5mph) already.
And the figures from vehicles having bad-overtake accidents involving trucks is not collected since they are collected as collision stats and not why....
I think, having assimilated the philosophy of the report, that it is safe to assume that the speed limit of 40mph is going to be raised, and that the only question remaining is to what: 45 or 50mph.
We can doubtless expect the same approach to other vehicles/accidents....if a motorcyclist is killed overtaking a car travelling at 70mph, we then raise the speed limit of the car.
I also note an initiative by Leics police: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-20643725

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing